Summary
Joe Hudson discusses his approach to training coaches and facilitators at Art of Accomplishment. He rejects traditional qualifications, noting that people with multiple degrees can be horrible coaches while those without formal credentials can be transformative. The only thing that “qualifies” him is that people ask to be taught after seeing his work. His vision is to create a more open-hearted, empowered world — and training coaches is one vehicle for that.
Joe describes the foundational ingredients for coaching: commitment to self-awareness over being a coach, recognizing that presence matters more than skills, learning to listen to yourself and say the scary thing in the moment, learning technique (but only after the other pieces are in place), and owning your narcissism while recognizing you’re not special. The first year of training is entirely about presence — how you show up, how you listen.
He identifies three dangerous motivations that draw people to coaching: wanting to save people (which makes clients into victims), seeking surrogate intimacy without the risk of real relationship, and wanting to be seen as the person who knows things (which leads to giving wisdom instead of helping people find it). Joe’s commitment to trainees is lifelong — as long as they do the work — but his job is to be a mirror, not to please them. The broader vision is a community of practice where coaches bring their unique expressions, support each other as partners, and the platform continues beyond any individual.
Key Concepts
- Coaching is self-discovery, not skill acquisition
- Presence matters more than technique in coaching
- Three dangerous motivations draw people to coaching
- Own your narcissism while knowing you’re not special
- Dumpster fires create the best facilitation moments
- Your coaching expression must be yours, not your teacher’s
Key Quotes
“I don’t really believe generally in qualifications… the only thing that makes me qualified is that people ask Tara and I to teach them how to coach.”
“What you’re going to learn here is self-discovery… that understanding of yourself is what’s going to be the foundation of any kind of coaching practice.”
“The first year is all about presence — how do you show up, how do you listen.”
“I love it when shit goes haywire… the most beautiful moments I’ve ever had facilitating are when things have gone South.”
“If somebody really wants to be a coach, coach is like one of those rockstar careers… there’s a lot of reasons that’ll draw you into being a rockstar that will blow your world up.”
“My commitment is not ‘you’re my customer and my job is to keep you happy’… if anything my job is to piss you off in a coaching program.”
Transcript
A big piece behind the art of accomplishment and how it’s growing is that you train coaches and facilitators and we’ve never talked about that in a direct way on the podcast and I’d love to get into that first of all I’d say like what what makes you qualified to train coaches and facilitators and what makes you do it oh great I’m qualified that is an excellent question on the qualified part I don’t really believe generally in qualifications I I’ve had people who have been extremely qualified with multiple degrees as my coaches or therapists in my life and some of them are just amazing and some of them are horrible and the the qualification as far as like standards go is the same and so I don’t really I don’t really believe in that kind of qualifications you know like I I think the same way with entrepreneurs I think at one point it was like 75% of them had all dropped out of college at some point so the successful ones so I I’m not qualification is a weird word for me the only thing that makes me qualified then is that people ask Tara and I to to teach them how to coach so they see what I do and they think oh that’s something that that I if I see that that person must be able to teach it and therefore they come to me and they ask to be taught and so that’s the only thing that qualifies me is that there’s a demand and and I and I coach in a way that people like or or want to learn from yeah so what what made you transition from from your own coaching and facilitation to to teaching it yeah I mean part of it was the demand and part of it is a a vision that I hold right so if I look at the the the mission behind everything I do it’s how do I create a a more undefended heart opened empowered world to me that’s that’s what I’m interested in that’s like that’s my little Lego set that I want to build right like that seems cool to me and so and so the the question is how to best do that and it’s one of the ways that I find it’s really great to do that is work with leaders of companies that you know where there’s influence over tens of thousands of people and one of the ways is to create a system that allows for lots of people to be able to find their wisdom and to be able to pass it on and and then not only just pass on their wisdom but it also means like a a wisdom passing on tradition that is more about helping people find their wisdom than it is about giving them wisdom right so it’s really important to me that I’m a part of a system if if I’m going to create a system or be a part of a system it’s one that allows people to find their wisdom not something that says this is the wisdom and now that you have it you can X Y or Z yeah yeah and there’s an interesting piece there which is that when when I what I’ve seen from people coming and doing this work and from my own experience is that the more we do the work in ourselves the more we have the capacity to be with others because we’re not trying to give them our wisdom or change them or make them be a certain way we’re actually just on our own journey of exploration which is a way better way to be with somebody as a coach or a facilitator yeah I mean in in what we’re doing that’s absolutely the case and even to the point where like some people come to me and they see what I do coaching wise they feel like it’s magic and they just want to learn how to do what I do and one of the things that I’ll say is like that’s not that’s you’re not going to learn that here what you’re going to learn here is self-discovery and that self-discovery that understanding of yourself that’s what’s going to be the foundation of any kind of coaching practice that you have and eventually that expression of coaching is going to be yours it’s not going to be mine I’m the only person who’s going to coach the way I do you’re the only person who’s going to coach the way you do and we might learn some skills or learn from each other or you know learn little things but the real the real thing is the presence it’s the transmission if you will it’s it’s like how are you with the person and and what are your projections onto them and your projections onto yourself and so that to me is really the the foundation there’s other schools of coaching that are nothing like that right there’s other schools of coaching which is like here’s the skill set go out and do it and it’s all about like creating accountability and it’s all about like having just a very clear set of techniques that is not at all what we’re doing and nobody should come and learn coaching from us if that’s what they want that’s not it’s not what we’re here for yeah yeah it’s interesting so you just described that you’re teaching coaches and facilitators as very similar to what we’re teaching all the students in our programs so like what what is different about what you teach coaches and facilitators if anything from that from that core way of being yeah there’s a couple things like so in some of our programs you know we want the interpersonal Dynamics to show up so that you can learn from those interpersonal Dynamics in the coaching all the foundation of everything is how do you get back to unconditional love so that that’s like the the foundation is what’s your presence and what do you need to do to get back to unconditional love with yourself and with the person that or the people that you’re with that’s like the critical piece and then how do you use that coaching or facilitation as a as a road to self-discovery so for instance if I have an authority issue I guarantee you that when I facilitate and I get in front I’m gonna have people certain Authority things being in certain Authority roles is going to twist me having people question my authority is going to twist me somebody trying to take over the Authority in the room is going to twist me all of which is completely and Perfectly Natural and all of which is some way that I get to learn about myself some way that I get to see what twists me and and what I need to love and what’s left for me to understand in myself so so in that way it’s very very much the same the difference is that we are doing all of that with the like you’re here to reflect for somebody else and it’s weird because even if you look at our opening course right the connection course it’s a communication course and it’s like I’ve had coaches take it and go oh my gosh I’m so much a better Coach because I took that course and you learn about yourself and so to me I think in a weird way everything that we do is you know a lot of people say some of our work is like meditation through interpersonal work it’s like there’s a connection piece to it everything we do we learn we use that interpersonal as one of the forms of learning so it’s it’s hard to say the difference except for there are some skills that we teach but we do that not first not second but way down the line do we get to the skills yeah yeah and I noticed that’s also been in sort of the way that the work is marketed too you haven’t been marketing this ever as here’s a coaching training program or even that we have a coaching and training program to the public this this episode is the first time we’re actually talking about that yes that’s right and so what are what are the reasons for that for you I’m not really I think part of it is I’m not you know if somebody really wants to be a coach coach is like one of those things that it’s like it’s one of those rockstar careers it’s like I want to be a rock star and there’s a lot of reasons that’ll draw you into being a rockstar that will blow your world up you know like I just want all the attention and then you get all the attention it’s like whoa what the hell am I you know and then I got to take drugs to feel blah blah blah you know there’s it’s the same thing it’s something that a lot of people want for some reason but they don’t know what it actually is and they don’t know like what will blow them up in it and and so I’m a little bit tentative to say oh if you want to be a coach I want to help you it’s more of finding those people or having the people find us that it’s like that’s their calling they can’t they just have to do that thing they’re moving into that direction and they can’t which is more of the way that it worked for me far more the way that it worked for Tara so I think that’s one of the reasons so that this is just something that generally people find it’s why you have to do our courses know our work even to think about a coaching program so that’s part of it and then like more specifically give you some examples some some folks they really want to be a coach because they want to like save people right like they have they had a role in their family of being the Savior their job was to emotionally take care of an alcoholic parent like my case and so like and now I’m going to make a career out of doing that well that’s incredibly dangerous for yourself first of all because you’re not focusing on your wants and your needs and it’s also incredibly dangerous for the other person because if you’re saving people if you actually coach from that place you’re making people into victims right you’re if you’re like oh I’m I’m here to save you it means you can’t save yourself and so and I would say a lot of folks come to coaching for that reason another reason that people come to coaching is because it’s like intimacy except for it doesn’t have the risk you know like there’s this deep intimacy happens when you coach someone when I coach someone but there’s not the risk that you have like say with your marriage and so there’s a way for people to get a surrogate of intimacy and feel that connection but they don’t actually have the risk that’s also quite dangerous for a number of reasons both for the person doing it another great example that brings people into coaching is because they want to be seen as the person who knows stuff right and then that’s dangerous because then you’re teaching yeah you’re teaching people to give the wisdom so there’s a number of things that bring people into coaching these are three of them that will hurt others will hurt that will end up hurting you if you’re coaching and and so I I really want to be very specific about who we train and so that means we know them that we’ve experienced them we’ve seen how they show up in the work we know their capacity to be vulnerable and their capacity to have intimacy those are all really important things to us because if I have only a certain amount of time that I get to work in the world and I want to create things that work right like I say to companies all the time I won’t come into your company unless I know I can be successful because I know there’s a hundred places I can be successful and where I can have an impact so that’s where I’m going to go and it’s the same with coaching people I really want to work with people who are deeply committed to their self-awareness over being a coach yeah so so what are some of the kind of foundational ingredients here I’m imagining you sort of being like a sushi chef and people want to come learn how to make sushi with you and you’re like okay like let’s see how you make the rice let’s see how you make the Dashi what are what are the foundational things that you’re looking for or that can be built for somebody who wants to be a coach and also maybe wants to become aware of the aspects of themselves that would be dangerous in coaching if they weren’t aware how does that how does that work so I think the most important ingredient is commitment to self-awareness commitment to learning to be unconditionally loving it’s our first thing that’s that’s your primary commitment over being a coach over helping people over having a name over being on a podcast like that’s the number one commitment second ingredient is recognizing your presence means more than your skills how do I listen how am I with you how how open is my heart like that that is the foundation technique so to speak is the VIEW mindset and and so that’s really critical next really critical piece is listening to yourself learning to pay attention to the internal call in the moment listen to the thing that feels wrong or right in the moment to to say the thing that wants to be said even if it’s scary in the moment it’s like being able to hear yourself and follow that even if your mind is telling you you shouldn’t say that because it’s like a very rare coaching session where there’s some point where I’m just like holy shit am I about to say that and then I say it and usually those are some of the best things to say so that’s another that’s and then there’s some technique you know there’s a little bit of technique but without all that other stuff the technique can just be dangerous and there’s plenty of other places people can learn the technique so that’s another ingredient is just like how you hold the knife to go with the sushi metaphor and then I would say that the the final ingredient is it’s a hard thing to describe but it’s to it’s either to understand that there’s nothing special about you or it is to own your narcissism it’s two different ways to explain the same thing but it is especially when you go into facilitation especially when you go into teaching it’s so necessary for you not to put yourself above anybody it’s so necessary and it’s so necessary to realize that you want to be special and that you want to be heard and you want people to say thank you and like that that is like a natural beautiful part of the process and not to be in your head saying I don’t understand why all these people come to me to like get coaching like I don’t know why that is it’s like yeah I know why that is I understand the power that I hold here I can be in that and I can still recognize that I am not special that that essentially I’m not better than anybody essentially I still have my own lessons to be learning and that combination is really really really really critical for great coaching and so and like you know one of the first parts of if anybody wants to coach with us the first program is all about just being like the presence the first year is like all about presence it’s that it’s a dedication to just how do you show up how do you listen yeah yeah so what are what would you say are the steps for let’s say you found somebody with kind of Foundations in place they’ve owned their narcissism they are in it for their self-awareness they’re steeped in this particular approach in this particular work in a way and what kind of steps would you take somebody through in a coaching and facilitation training yeah so the first thing is it it’s really I think often in that order that I just described so I don’t think I think the gate is are you here for your self-development or are you here to coach and if it’s you’re here to coach it’s not a fit obviously I probably haven’t identified that right every time but so that’s that’s a that’s kind of the gate and then the first thing is really how how is their presence how well do they listen how well do they recognize and then this would be the first thing to teach is just the way that they show up determines more about how the person across from them is going to show up how the World shows up than anything else and so how do you just stay focused on that so and back to the sushi metaphor it’s like I think there’s some famous story about someone spending 10 years just making the rice perfect you know what I mean some it’s like that is the first step and then we start working on all the other stuff and after so something like when they start seeing that they’re not special and all the other pieces are in place then we might talk about like how to facilitate and start and how to maybe even like start creating exercises and and how to facilitate rooms because it gets exponentially harder when you’re in a room with a whole bunch of folks and you have an agenda which you need as a facilitator so when you do the facilitation you need to do all that other stuff and be able to be there present owning all that stuff and you need to be able to say okay this is what we’re doing okay I’m the authority in the room okay here’s the exercise it’s like as you know from your recent experience like I see the smile on your face it’s no easy feat to pull that all off you know so and to do it well to do it in a way that really is empowering for everybody yeah I particularly appreciate it when we’re doing something like the reunion where there’s a dynamic where there’s a number of groups and like myself and other coaches and AOA facilitators are facilitating those groups and you’re facilitating us in a process while we’re facilitating the groups and then when something goes kind of sideways in one of the groups we come back through and then like somehow you’re holding you and Tara are holding all of that and yeah there’s this like beautiful just like multi-layered learning that’s happening yeah and you know we often say things like oh this dumpster fire is not going to stoke itself because like we’re working through our own like okay how’s this exercise going to work in this group how’s this Dynamic going to work out with this person and there’s a I noticed one thing that occurs when there’s a brand and there’s an organization is that there’s like a standard and whether it’s a standard that set by you or it’s a standard that’s set by individual coaches and facilitators like those of us who are doing the work here that we’re like wanting to make sure that things go well for the brand and you know that we don’t do something wrong and like what what is how does that work for you when you’re training coaches and facilitators that are working in the modality that you created and also sometimes completely out of sight from you how how do you track what’s going on in the community yeah it’s a great question I you know I love it when shit goes haywire so I don’t love it when someone breaks a principle like if one of our folks started yelling at somebody or couldn’t get back to unconditional love that’s one thing but if a dumpster fire starts that’s great like I’d be I’d be very happy if you know five people went out to facilitate something and they’re just like that went horribly wrong I would be like great maybe not great for the students that would make me sad but I know I will have much better facilitators on the other end of that things go horribly wrong when you facilitate from time to time and I think for me this dumpster fire is not going to stoke itself really reminds me that I’m not here to make it work I’m here to be present with what the hell is happening and I’m here to not look for a result as much as look for how am I going to be in this moment with these people and it reminds me of that and the more I’m reminded of that the more I let go of the results the better the results typically are because I’m not fighting people I’m not forcing I’m following the river and I think that’s what allows me to do I know that’s what allows me to do stuff that feels remarkable inside of companies is because I’m just I am at the foundational level how am I listening how am I being with these people what am I hearing what are the patterns I’m seeing yeah it feels like how do I reflect them in myself say again I mean it feels like that is the teaching of the entire body of work here through whatever role someone is in correct whether they’re a CEO in a course learning like what are they what are they learning how to be present with the moment with whatever is happening in the team and with the company yeah and and listen to their truth and react to it that’s right yeah that’s right yeah so those moments are some of the most beautiful in a dynamic when something goes haywire and something blows up and that’s like it can be the most beautiful I remember the classic story of this is we had three groups running at the same time two of them were super functional one of them was going completely South we had a plan okay what are we going to do and we’re like two groups are ready for our next step and one group is not so crap we sat down what are we gonna do and we just said okay we’re gonna just witness group dynamic and we took the dysfunctional group dynamic and we put them last and we put functional group dynamic first so that group sat in the middle everybody sat around and watched them process and I remember the look on the dysfunctional group’s face like is this a joke was the first look and then the second look you remember you were there yeah and then the second look was like oh this is possible this is possible and by the time it became their turn it was just like their dysfunction was over they just boom they just felt they said oh we can do that and they just fell into that that only came that beautiful moment only came because shit went South and so the most beautiful moments I’ve ever had facilitating are when things have gone South yeah another thing you know coming back to within a coaching session as well if you’re coaching to a technique or a particular skill then you don’t have the space for that to happen or when it does happen you don’t know what to do don’t know how to be with yourself or be with the situation yeah unless if you do then that’s where magic happens right if someone argues with me in a coaching session I’m like oh cool someone cries cool whatever there’s no result that I’m looking for I’m just like what’s happening how can I be with you yeah and so that’s that’s the thing yeah yeah so so what do you see as your commitment to somebody that you’re training this is a good one I think I get a little like it gets a little gray area for me here my commitment whenever I work with anybody directly whether I’m coaching and I say this to all the like Executives that I coach which is if I coach you I don’t stop coaching you as long as you do the work you run out of money I still coach you you get fired I still coach you as long as you’re committed as long as you continue to be committed to discovering yourself and doing the inner work I’m with you I feel the exact same way about anybody who starts into the coaching program as long as they’re doing the work I will continue working with them if I’ve committed to them right that doesn’t mean anybody’s in the program but if I’m really committed to teaching somebody in there like part of the ecosystem then that’s that’s my commitment to them the other side of my commitment to them is that I am not here to please them like I’m here to point out what they’re missing and then let that resonate or not resonate as it sees fit I am here to follow what I see they need like so for when I mean that for instance somebody recently came to us and was like I want to start facilitating like ground breakers I’m making it up a little bit but I want to start like creating and programming my own ground breakers and this person was I don’t know like two years in the program or something like that hadn’t done any coaching hadn’t done any facilitating training yet and my response was like what’s the hurry what what is it that you’re after what’s the thing that you’re trying to undo or do by like what’s the and then pointing out some of the pitfalls and some of the things that I saw in this person you know like oh I noticed that in your company that you started you got this thing where a whole bunch of people were dependent on you and then you were resentful how if at all is that pattern repeating here it’s not to be like oh you’re my if my commitment is not you’re my customer and my job is to keep you happy in a coaching program if anything my job is to piss you off in a coaching program like I’m here to be a mirror because that’s the most effective way that you get to see yourself clearly to do it with love and to do it with gentleness and not be an asshole about it but it is to do that it is to point out when people are missing stuff and not assume that I know but letting them see what resonates and feels and what they’re ready to tackle yeah so it’s you know so again it’s not like a here’s a ladder you’re going to do this and then you’re going to do this and once you perfect this it’s very much working because the way that the human system works is that it’s like one coach has almost everything figured out except for they’re still trying to save people and another coach has almost everything figured out except for they keep on not saying the risky thing and one coach has everything figured out but keeps on trying to show value like it it’s so much more based on our personality than it is based on some sort of like steps and levels and process yeah so that’s my commitment yeah yeah and I guess a lot of that brings up the question of like who holds that role for you because if you have an organization or some kind of school where there’s somebody at the top who’s holding the teacher role and they’re pointing things out in other people and that’s the job that’s what people are coming for yeah and like who points back to you for your blind spots one of the things that I’ll just sidebar for a second one of the things that I love about working with you is just seeing how like there’s so many times where I see you hit your Edge and then you move through it and that makes me feel safe being a coachee or a trainee with you yeah yeah and also like who who holds that role for you well there’s a lot of people there’s a lot of people hold that role for me and some exciting new people coming online so I definitely I have a coach that I work with and then I have Tara obviously doesn’t let me get away with shit my girls are both of my teenage daughters definitely will point out anytime that they see and very very readily point out if I’m missing something that they see I have a very good relationship with the people who come into the office where they’ll tell me what I’m missing consistently like a group of people who do that and what’s starting to happen is you know as we’ve been working you and I have been working together now for whatever it is five seven years something and more and more that’s starting to happen too what’s more and more starting to happen is the people that I’ve been working with a long time who are in the coaching program are also like if something feels wonky they point it out and say hey this feels wonky what’s going on and we work it through together so to me all of that stuff is important and I have a couple other mentors that I’ll call up occasionally and ask but to me the most important thing and the platform that I want to grow is all about just a community of practice of people in which everybody is actually a true partner which means everybody not everybody everybody on the platform or the Council of coaches if you will they’re all bringing their form of coaching they’re all bringing their form of wisdom into classes they’re bringing their classes into the world as you just recently did they’re all tending towards the business caring for the business and it’s done in a partnership because if my mission is our mission I would say is to open-hearted unconditional loving empowerment like creating a world that’s like that it’s partnership that’s it it’s not employee relation it’s not boss and employee it’s partnership and so I really want to create that in that coaching world so all that stuff is part of it and I’m also just and like you like I said one of the main things to have anybody come in part of it is are they committed to their own self-awareness and so if I am doing something and I feel a lot of constriction I feel the emotional bomb go off I feel that I’m triggered I do my work that’s my commitment to me which is the same commitment I hold for everybody that I work with directly which is like we do our work and so and I’m lucky enough on the path at the point in a path where like getting triggered I can’t go it doesn’t go unnoticed it’s not like oh I got triggered I’m just gonna ignore that it’s like no I got triggered that’s work maybe not today maybe in a month but it’s work and it’s going to be addressed obviously still have blind spots and I count on a ton of people to point those out to me yeah and I love hearing about the vision one a couple things that I didn’t hear about the vision is that like the vision is to train coaches and then send them out into the wild there’s like a community of practice kind of building component to the vision can you speak more to that yeah I mean I’m sure some of the folks that we’re gonna like that are going to train are going to go out and do their own thing I think that’s great but what my hope and we’ll see if this is possible but my hope is more of like a contained open source environment so you are doing this work you’re putting a tremendous amount of time into your self-awareness you also come with this action sports background and this relationship to fear you created this teaching about fear where people went out into the desert and jumped off cliffs together I couldn’t have done that that couldn’t have come from me that could only come from you Mark who many people probably know he’s just he has so much understanding of his physical body right potentially one day Mark does like how to enjoy being healthy like a physical I can’t wait he could do that I could not do that he could do that like his style is going to be different his style is different than mine Janine and her martial arts like there’s so many things that I can’t bring to the table and so the question is like how do we create a platform where everybody in due time when they’re ready if they’ve done their work can show up and be on this platform called Art of accomplishment or whatever the platform becomes and support each other both in their own self-discovery and business as a spiritual practice and put their expression out into the world and do it in such a way so that everybody financially benefits everybody’s in financial abundance like that’s the vision and when I’m done when I’m like okay I’m out of here or dead or whatever the hell happens that it just continues going maybe it doesn’t go even with anything that I ever taught you know maybe the podcast is gone and the connection course is gone great but there’s this community that constantly changes and evolves and supports one another and feels grateful like to me the most important thing and the reason I would not do this is if we can’t find a way to do it where everybody’s grateful oh I’m so grateful to be on the platform I’m so grateful to contribute to the platform I’m so grateful for the people I get to work with like I want that’s the way the business side of this thing works and that’s the way I want this platform to work is just that gratitude and digging in when people get triggered yeah yeah that yeah yeah yeah let’s hope we can do it we’re running some good experiments it’s gonna be something it’s gonna be fun whatever it is this dumpster fire won’t stoke itself totally it all could go horribly wrong that’s right I mean things have never gone horribly wrong before with like groups of people doing a lot of self-development together and business yeah never before never that’s never happened yeah exactly yeah I think to me and the interesting thing about it is the more I’m in you know you’re constantly learning and I’m constantly learning so in the beginning I thought teaching was like explaining everything to everybody all at once and it’s not it’s learn one thing stay focused on that one thing then learn the next thing similarly it’s just like actually having a like taking your time and having a process of seeing who wants to do what and following that and then having a place for different folks to go it’s like some folks are going to really want to just start their own thing great go start your own thing and some folks are really gonna want to just do it so that they learn and they never actually really even want to coach right but they somehow are pulled to this and then they just use it to be a better CEO we’ve had that happen and some folks are going to want to be a part of the platform and it’s really important to be able to create roads for that expression out in the world but also to make sure that we’re being very we’re very clear about who can be a part of it and who cannot be right like any platform what I notice is quality is really really important and so it’s really important not to be exclusive but to like this platform it wants a tremendous amount of diversity but it doesn’t want diversity of like well half of the people don’t really care about their own personal work everybody on the platform really needs to care about that and so that’s been the hard part of learning it is to say no to people is really a heartbreaker for me never thought that would be such a heartbreaker but it’s a real Heartbreaker for me to see somebody who wants it but it’s just like yeah that’s not what we’re building here that’s hard it’s really hard or to say I see that you’ve been this very successful CEO and you want to coach other CEOs and I know there’s a ton of people who will give you that job and you’ll make a lot of money but we just think you need to listen for a year like yeah and then the Heartbreak of just having limited spaces available oh God yeah we had to say no to so many people this year and it just sucked it was definitely like Tara and I totally mourned that process there’s people that we really wanted to have on it and then yeah so hopefully if we continue to take our time and do this right the platform will become bigger and bigger and be able to accommodate more and more people yeah so to close I have to ask the questions that are going to come in as a result of releasing this conversation great if somebody wants to be trained as a coach or facilitator yeah by the art of accomplishment by you and Tara yeah what what is your advice to them what do our courses to say do our courses and participate full on like be in it to win it show up be vulnerable do the work dig in show that the number one thing you’re interested in is developing yourself to understanding yourself show that that is your number one like you are relentless in that pursuit gentle yes but relentless that’s the thing that is the number one piece if you watch some of my rapid fire coaching sessions and you’re like oh I want to be able to do that like we’re not the place for you or check into what that impulse is yes I had that impulse I still sometimes get that impulse when I watch your coaching I’m like I want to be able to do that and like what is tracing that back to like what is the desire there like what is it that I want to be able to do fair right yeah that’s fine if it’s of self-awareness I want the level of emotional fluidity I want to be able to feel what’s going on in a room yeah I want that yeah yes that’s fair I think if there’s some recognition underneath yeah I’m not suggesting by any means any way to sublimate a want but just like be in it for the self-awareness and be self-aware in that want that’s a great way to put it yeah thanks for that correction awesome yeah thank you Joe yeah pleasure pleasure thank you and thank you everybody for listening if you like this episode please send it to a friend share it around find us on X send us some questions let us know what you would love to hear us talk about and we’ll do it all right take care thank you.