Summary
Joe and Brett do a deep dive into experimentation as a modality for self-discovery. Joe traces his experimental approach back to authority issues—he couldn’t trust any teacher, so he had to test everything himself. This evolved from rebellious sovereignty (“nobody tells me what to do”) to genuine wonder-driven exploration to something like surrender, where experiments show up and he follows them like a guru.
They cover why experiments are transformative: they create embodied knowledge (not book learning), separate identity from behavior, make change playful rather than burdensome, are efficient (MIT media lab principle: test the thing you know least about first), follow your natural “migratory path” of development, and open the aperture that shoulds close down.
Key practical guidance: keep experiments short (at least a week typically), don’t make them a should, stay when discomfort arises but iterate when a should shows up, only run one or two at a time, and never design experiments that reinforce shame. Start with something completely contradictory to what you believe—test the thing you’re sure can’t be true.
Joe shares the transformative insight that practices stop working when used to manage yourself rather than explore. Brett shares discovering that his morning freewriting experiment only worked when he redesigned it from a rigid obligation into placing his notebook where he’d naturally encounter it.
Key Concepts
- Experiments create embodied knowledge, not book learning
- Experiments separate identity from behavior
- Don’t make experiments a should—keep them playful
- Using a practice to manage yourself makes it stop working
- Follow your natural migratory path through experiments
- Test the thing you know least about first
- Stay when experiments get uncomfortable, iterate when they become shoulds
- We are always running experiments—the question is whether consciously
Key Quotes
“I can’t trust anybody. I’m going to try it out for myself. I’m going to reinvent the wheel, but at least it’s going to be my wheel.”
“If you’re loving something to go away, you’re not loving it anymore.”
“Experiments separate your identity—an experiment doesn’t have anything to do with your identity. I’m just going to learn some shit.”
“Don’t make it a should. You’re always looking for a way of finding an experiment and the mindset that makes it playful and fun and a discovery process.”
“We’re either running experiments consciously or unconsciously. Everything we’re doing, we are by our nature experimenting.”
“There’s usually this moment of discomfort and you don’t want to just jump out of the experiment during that discomfort—embrace intensity.”
“If I did a practice and I didn’t know what was going to happen it worked really well, but as soon as I was using the practice to manage myself it stopped working.”
Transcript
I was at this hotel and there was just a book lying around and I read it and he said trace your thought back to its origin. I just was inspired to do exactly that and I somatically traced the thought back to where it came from. I was like what the fuck was that? And then I thought to myself what I need to do is really play out this experiment stuff. So today we’re going to talk about a modality for self-discovery that you can use to change your life. Yeah it’s experiments. It’s how to set up little tests and explorations in your life that will let you understand yourself far better and know how you can be more authentic and more successful in your life. And they are really fun and also super effective. One of my favorite things and a huge part of my entire growth process has been running experiments.