Summary
In this coaching breakdown, Joe works with a man who procrastinates on his personal side project (a website) but never on work for others. Joe and Brett deconstruct the pattern layer by layer: the man only procrastinates where money and self-care intersect, the work feels personal and rejectable, and he’s loaded it with existential weight—“if I don’t do this perfectly, I’m a bad father.”
The core insight is that procrastination happens when something that could be a fun iterative endeavor gets transformed into a test of self-worth. The man’s perfectionism doesn’t manifest as endless redoing—it stops him from starting. Joe shows that the man’s “fear of overwhelm” is illogical since his procrastination already overwhelms him, piercing through the story. The breakthrough comes when the man realizes he can simply enjoy the present moment—no performance required.
Joe assigns an experiment: sit down to work with enjoyment as the primary goal and work as secondary. Brett and Joe discuss how procrastinators often had critical parents who taught that love requires performance, and how the pattern of “finding the next thing to fix” perpetuates stuckness.
Key Concepts
- Procrastination happens when the work feels personal
- The brain creates false endings that paralyze action
- The fixing mindset perpetuates the very stuckness it tries to solve
- Making enjoyment the priority dissolves procrastination
- Recognizing patterns with an open heart moves them quickly
- The story about how you’re broken is the problem, not the brokenness
- You become your own oppressive boss
Key Quotes
“He’s not procrastinating over 98% of his life. He’s procrastinating over one thing that he thinks is important.”
“The only thing making it not fun is that you somehow think it’s important.”
“In a war with yourself, you always lose. All I have to do is stop fighting and I can actually just enjoy.”
“How do you just enjoy like right now? How do you enjoy this moment 10% more?”
“Make your work something that is lovely for you to do and you won’t procrastinate.”
“Life is constantly showing you counter evidence to your story. But when it does, we very quickly go, well, there needs to be another problem.”
Transcript
He’s not procrastinating over 98% of his life. He’s procrastinating over one thing that he thinks is important. Whatever it is that you’re working on, take a moment to see is like, is this who you are or is this just one actually kind of small percentage of your life? Life is constantly showing you counter evidence to your story. But when it does, we very quickly go, well, there needs to be another problem. People have a story about how they’re messed up, but the story about how they’re messed up is the problem. And this is so important if you’re thinking about your procrastination because welcome to the art of accomplishment where we explore living the life you want with enjoyment and ease. I’m Brett Kistler and this is Joe Hudson, coach to some of the top Silicon Valley executives. Today we’re doing a coaching breakdown. Joe, could you tell us a little bit about what that means and what we’re going to be doing? Sure. Hey Brett, good to be with you, man. Yeah, you too. Yeah, as far as the coaching goes, it’s the breakdown is meant to help you understand patterns of procrastination in yourself. It is not meant to be a way to teach people how to coach. The reason that that’s the case and why I’m not going to go into a lot of the details of how I coach is because coaching is best done from self awareness, from self-realization, from understanding yourself. It’s not best done through technique. And so the best way to become a great coach that actually allows you to be fulfilled and not hurt other people is to just deeply understand yourself. And so even when we are teaching coaches, we’re mostly just teaching people how to understand themselves to be with themselves. So please don’t take this as some sort of guide on how to coach. It’s just not a great way to go. All right, let’s get into it. So my question for you Yeah. I procrastinate a lot. Uhhuh. And so just can we pause even this for a second? There’s something that’s so beautiful about somebody who’s just so clear on what they want. Like a lot of times people come into a coaching session with me in the in our rapid coaching that you know this is one of those free sessions that we do and they they like circle around the well and he’s just like bam I procrastinate. And what I noticed is when people do that, when people are really clear on their question, when they’re really clear about what they want, when they allow themselves to actually want what they want, feel what they want, the breakthrough can happen a lot quicker, and with a lot more ease than the folks who are not quite able yet to really allow themselves to feel what they want. Which is why what makes this video such a like it’s just bam bam bam video. So, a lot of movement really quickly. Question is how do I get to the root of that procrastination? You procrastinate a lot on what? Because there’s stuff you don’t procrastinate on. For instance, you procrastinate on this call, putting your shirt on in the morning. Like, so what is it that you procrastinate? Yeah. So, so, so this is something that’s always the case. Something the human mind. So, there’s two things about the human mind that really get you with procrastination, but they get you with a lot of the habits. The first one is that you’re constantly seeing the way that you are doing the thing that you don’t want to do, but you’re not seeing the thing that you’re not doing. And you define yourself as the thing that is bad, not the thing that you think is good. So, he’s saying he’s a procrastinator. He probably walks around with that self-definition procrastinator, but in reality, he’s not procrastinating over 98% of his life. He’s procrastinating over one thing that he thinks is important. Probably most likely, maybe two, maybe three, but most of most of his life he’s not procrastinating. And this is just a really important thing to think about when whatever it is, if whatever it is that you’re working on, take a moment to see is like, is this who you are or is this just one actually kind of small percentage of your life? And are you defining yourself by that thing? Or are you saying, “Oh, there’s this little thing that I’m doing that, oh, I would like to change.” It’s such a difference. The more of a mountain you make out of a molehill, oftentimes the more stuck you feel and the more stuck it seems. Yeah. And also, the more that you generalize something to your entire life, like always nevering. Yes. I am always this, I never do this, then you don’t really have the surface area for really fine tuned insight. You don’t get that. Yeah. Fine grained noticing where exactly is this happening in my life. So I can investigate that. And I love that that’s where we’re starting here. The second thing that I’m doing is I’m just taking apart a story. So typically what happens is people have a story about how they’re messed up. And but the story about how they’re messed up is the problem. The problem isn’t that they’re messed up. The problem is that they’ve told that story. And there’s this great saying this is like the consciousness that got you into the problem isn’t going to be the consciousness that gets you out of the problem. And so it’s a very similar situation where you believe your story about procrastination. It’s the same story you’ve been telling yourself 20 times a day for decades potentially and you believe it, but it’s not giving you any freedom. So what on earth would make you believe it instead of question it? So, the first thing I’m going to do here is just deconstruct the story. I’m just not going to allow it to stand. And so, let’s see how it goes. On work stuff. So, I have I’ve got some clients again. So, not all your work stuff do you procrastinate on? No. No. So, what’s the stuff that you procrastinate on in work? Well, you could call it, let’s just say side hustle, side project, which is something of my own. Uhhuh. Okay. It’s looked like that for a many years. So, it’s the confluence of something that takes care of yourself and money where you procrastinate. Boom. Taking care of somebody else and money, do you procrastinate? Could you say that again? If you’re taking care of somebody else and earning money, do you procrastinate? Uh i.e. my children no I do what I need to do for sure. Okay. So something about the procrastination pattern often is that the procrastinator it’s not all but maybe like 80% of the time the procrastinator is procrastinating over stuff that’s about them not about other people. It’s stuff that they think it’s personal. It’s like an art form or it’s like doing their poetry or starting their business. It’s something that is going to define who they are and it’s not going to be about helping other people. And often times, not all the time, but often times somebody who has a lot of habituation on procrastination, they are like more in the codependent realm. They’re more likely to want to make sure other people are happy around them. And so that’s like a typical aspect of procrastination. And often times when someone’s really working through their procrastination, they’re also working with the fact that like it’s okay to take care of yourself, right? Like I can be quote unquote selfish. I don’t have to always be doing something for somebody else. Yeah. It sounds like obligation plays in here, too. It’s like the things that he’s obligated to do. Like he’s got to put his shirt on to go do the job that he gets the money for to pay for his kids food. Like that is something that gets done. But something that’s like a vulnerable creation for and from himself that steps into new territory that there might even be an aspect of being seen here. The fear of being seen in something that is more deeply felt as his. Yeah. Often times that’s the case. The procrastination happens when it’s personal and when it’s rejection. Whatever it is that you’re doing can get rejected and you can take that personally. Right? So, one of the things that I’ll do with people, though, I’m not doing it with this gentleman, is to really help them understand, I just did this the other day in a coaching session. Really help somebody understand that it’s not personal. Business isn’t personal. Your art form isn’t personal. Your mission isn’t personal. There was a woman who was starting her own company and she was really successful helping other people with their companies but now when it comes to hers and all she had to do was see that the mission was beyond her that the mission of her company was what she was serving instead of somebody else and that could deconstruct the procrastination because it was no longer personal. Yeah, that’s awesome. Moves past the identification as well. Yeah, exactly. Great. Let’s move on. The only place you’re procrastinating is where money and taking care of yourself happens. Is that accurate? Okay. Gotcha. Okay. So, what makes you not want to take care of yourself? Well, I mean, I take care of myself well physically. Yeah. What makes you want to not take care of yourself financially? I think I oscillate between fear of success and failure. Gotcha. Okay. Hold on a second. So that’s his story. I’m not going to let that story particularly stand because he’s been telling himself he’s scared most likely he’s been scared of success and failure for a long time. Like that’s something that he read somewhere or saw something and maybe he’s even worked through it a couple times. I’m not going to let that story stand because again the story is the thing that’s keeping him trapped in the situation. So definitely want to deconstruct it. The other thing just to say about the procrastination pattern particularly around money is that often times the money is a substitute for something else. Meaning like it was it used to be dad’s love that I could never get. Now it’s money I can never get, or it used to be mom would always try to make me feel better with money and buy me stuff and so I’m buying my I’m like spending money too quickly because I am trying to make myself feel better and avoid the thing underneath the way my mom taught me. And so often times just that money itself is not the issue. It’s some emotional thing that happened before money, safety, value, worth. Safety. Exactly. All that stuff. So, I’m not going down that money route with him because he started by saying procrastination. So, I’m following where he wants to go and because he didn’t say I have a money issue, I have a procrastination issue. And that’s why we’re going to go down this route. All right. The fear of success is that I’ll become overwhelmed. Yeah. And I’ll be unable to have How overwhelmed are you with the procrastination? Um, considerably so. Okay. So, it’s not overwhelm you’re scared of. You’re doing it to yourself all the time. How do you mean? Well, yeah. So, stop right there. This is a great moment. What I said was entirely logical, entirely obvious. He said, “I’m scared of success cuz it’ll overwhelm me. How much does your procrastination overwhelm you? It overwhelms me a lot. So, you’re not scared of overwhelm. You’re doing it to yourself all the time. But his whole brain just went, “What?” He couldn’t make sense of it. That’s where I know I’m starting to pierce the story because the story is so embedded. And when his brain can’t see that obvious thing right away, he will in a second see it, but when he can’t see it right away, that’s my knowing, oh, he’s broken through the story. Like the story is now no longer at like this solid fortress of stuckness. It is now starting to crack open. Yeah. There’s a great example of what we call the 404, which is, you know, a page not found on the internet in your own consciousness. It’s I just stepped off the map. Where are we? What is this? What’s happening? And that’s where the magic happens. That’s where patterns change and different parts of ourselves emerge and get to be expressed. Yeah. Exactly. So you don’t have any fear of overwhelm. That’s happening all the time. It does happen all the time. Yeah. So what’s the real fear? That it’ll fail. So I think that the fear of success is ultimately the fear of failure because it’ll go up and then well hopefully so that means when you’re doing this stuff so when you’re working for somebody else none of that shit’s going through your head. When you’re working for yourself all that shit’s going through your head. So when you’re doing your work for yourself, give me a project that you’re procrastinating on. I liked how right there the story started to come back. It’s about success and failure. And then you did the same thing that was earlier in the call, which is just let’s look at this with more of a fine tooth comb. Like where is this happening? Where isn’t it happening? And anybody listening to this can look through their own lives and say, okay, what are the problems that I think I have? Where exactly is it happening? Where exactly is it not happening? Any way you can take wonder, you know, back to our, you know, the course stuff that we teach in the connection course, any place where you can get to wonder is a so you’re looking at the whole problem in a fresh way where you’re what’s actually going down here? What are the details? What like this is a story I tell myself. How is it not true? Any way you can do that kind of stuff is going to be helpful. Yeah. I’ve got a website. I’m building out just a niche website. Okay, great. So, you’re building out this website and when you’re doing it, how does it feel different in your body? So, hold on a second. There’s this little itty bitty clue that he just dropped right there a little bit. Yeah. It’s this kind of niche website. But we’re gonna find out it’s like incredibly important to him, but he’s like it’s a kind of niche website. So there’s like you that’s like the dichotomy inside of him like he’s telling us what that dichotomy that fight inside of him is. Here’s this important thing but it’s not that important but it’s really important but it’s not that important. Yeah. So that’s a good clue for what’s about to come than when you’re building a website out for your kid or for or doing work for someone else. Yeah. Well, if it was for my kid, for example, there’d be a lightness about it. There would just wouldn’t be any pressure. Great. So, basically what you’re saying is you procrastinate on things that feel like shit. Yeah. Yeah. Because I put so much importance and pressure on me, you know, that being the thing that it’s that or nothing, you know. Yeah. It defines you like I’m gripping on Yeah. Right. So, right. If every time you played the guitar, you were like, “I got to do this perfect.” You would not play guitar. No. I mean, yeah. I mean, if every time you doom scrolled and you were like, I’ve got to like do my finger perfectly on that scroll, you would stop doom scrolling. Yeah. Right. Well, the perfectionism is also at play here. There’s the perfectionism. It’s also interesting when you know the way that he hedged and he was like, “Yeah, it’s sort of a niche website.” There’s that aspect of being seen in how important this is to him. So there’s multiple layers here happening at once and you can see them all. Yeah. Yeah. And what and there’s a hint about what he just said. He’s like perfectionism is also play. His brain is now like looking for the new problem that he has to fix which is perfectionism. So you’re going to watch him try to bring that same underlying mentality of oh what’s this thing that I have to fix to make good enough so that finally I can have the thing that I want what’s the thing that I have to fix so that I can finally be good enough to have the thing that I want what’s the thing that I have to fix and you’re going to watch that happen which is the underlying pattern of procrastination often not always but often. Yeah, which is one thing that makes patterns in general so persistent is that life is constantly showing you counter evidence to your stories. But when it does, we very quickly go, well, there needs to be another problem. There needs to be another story because it would be really uncomfortable for me to go off the map and stay off the map until I’ve learned a new map. So anything I can do to get back on the map. Yeah, that’s right. Yeah. It also makes for a shitty website. Great websites connect. They’re not perfect. Yeah. It’s the kind of perfection where I’m not doing everything, you know, redoing it and redoing it. It’s the kind that stops me from starting. It’s that kind of perfectionism. That’s right. That’s right. Because as soon as you engage, it feels like shit. And what happens is I run into this I have a really low threshold for frustration and it feels like if I’m taking a step forward then something will get in my way and that my tolerance for that is Yeah. You’re going to get in the way. You’re in the way. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You’re not like, “How do I have fun building a website?” You’re like, “How do I make a perfect website?” Yeah, I am in the way cuz it’s all too much. Let’s just say for a second you were like, “Hey, I’m going to have fun building a website for myself.” The only requirement, it doesn’t matter how good it is. The only requirement is that I have fun. Yeah. There’s a lot more energy in that, you know, there’s way less friction. It’s like, well, and what’s the quality of the website going to be compared to if you try to do a perfect assuming you got it done, which I’m not going to assume is true, but you got it done going. This has to be a perfect website. There’s something that’s happening here where you’re like, you are keeping you stuck. This is and he’s like, yes. And if people are on their own and they make this recognition often, I mean, they’re often doing this anyway. They’re like, oh, I’m keeping myself stuck. I’m the problem. And it’s happening in this kind of blame, self-judgment, shame way. And that’s not what’s happening here. And could you talk a little bit about what the differences there and how that’s showing up in this session? Yeah. So the big difference is that as I’m saying it to him, I’m not calling him bad. So typically if you can say, “Hey, you know, I’m keeping myself stuck.” And you can do that with an open heart. There’s freedom in it. And you can move through that pattern really quickly. If you are I’m keeping myself stuck and therefore I’m bad and therefore I’m wrong and therefore I need to be fixed and your heart is closed towards yourself then that is a pattern that will entrench. If there’s shame that’s a pattern that’s going to entrench. So to recognize the truth with an open heart can actually move a pattern, right? Or the other way to say it is to recognize a pattern from view, which is I’m going to be vulnerable. Yeah, I messed up. I’m going to be impartial, right? Like I don’t need this to change. I’m going to be empathetic. I’m going to be with myself emotionally. I’m not going to try to push my emotions away. And I’m going to be full of wonder. Also known as an open heart. If you can do that, then your pattern changes relatively quickly. But if you come to it with a closed heart, I’m wrong, I’m shamed, there’s something wrong with me, I’ve got to fix it, then often times that pattern is going to be very slow to change, if it changes at all. Yeah. Another way to see that is the difference between bracing against it, which is tightening, constricting, and nothing’s going to change in that internal landscape. Or embracing it. Okay. I’m here. I’m willing to see this and I’m willing to be here for myself and really feel the feelings that come up, which is what’s happening. You’re pointing these things out and he’s seeing it and you can see the emotion in his face. And those who are listening to this are probably feeling some emotion if they’re resonating with this pattern. And pause right now for a moment. Just let yourself feel that. What’s that like to feel that without shame, without blaming yourself or making yourself wrong? And what’s the quality got it done which I’m not going to assume is true but you got it done going this has to be a perfect website and you got it done saying I’m going to have fun doing this website what would be the difference in quality of the websites and imagine that the one that’s fun will be of higher quality okay but let’s assume that it isn’t let’s assume that it’s shitty quality compared to the perfect one and then you’re like, you know what? I’m going to have fun redoing my website, improving my website. What’s happening there is that the introduction that I’m making there is that when people are scared, which is what this is underneath, right? There’s a fear that I’m not going to be perfect. There’s a fear I’m going to get rejected or I’m going to be accepted. There’s a fear going on. Oftentimes what happens is the brain will create a false end. I will make a shitty website and it’s over. I will lose my job and it’s over. I will get divorced and it’s over. And so if you can see through that false end, then there’s some freedom. Then the fear starts to wobble a little bit. And so all I’m doing here is also showing that yeah. So, you make a shitty website, you redo it, like what’s the problem? And which gives him a certain amount of freedom? And you can see his face as this is happening. He’s heating up physically. He’s heating up. His face is getting redder. It’s like he’s getting like a rush of life into his system. Okay. Actually, you’ll get the website. Yeah. It’ll get done. Yeah, it’ll get done. Yeah. I’ll go a lot further when it’s fun. That’s right. Whether and the only thing making it not fun is that you somehow think it’s important. Yeah, that’s right. It’s like the world saving me off the streets kind of. Great. Now I’m going to make you really uncomfortable. Okay. Here we go. Prove to all of us that it’s important. Your website that it’s important. Yeah. It’s so important that it’s not fun and you don’t do it. So, prove to us why it’s so important. Okay, pause. This is where that niche thing is. I’m calling back the niche thing. Mhm. Right. So, to some degree there’s some freedom in him owning it like to actually say the thing and then because until you can say it, you can’t see through it. Until you can own the thing, every epiphany is a rut is the beginning formation of a rut. And so until he can say yes, this is important, not say it’s niche, to own the importance, that’s the beginning of him being able to see that this is just an iterative life cool thing to do. It’s like no more or less important than sketching on a napkin, right? That if it’s not personal, if it’s not self-defining, then it can actually become fun. But he can’t do that unless he actually owns the importance first. Which is fascinating because some of the most important pieces of art or math equations or discoveries were all found by sketching on a napkin, right? Exactly. Yeah. That moment of not thinking about it in the shower or whatever. Yeah. Yeah. Totally. Because if I don’t do it, then I will be working for somebody else and that I don’t want to do that anymore. And I’ll my income will be limited and I won’t get to where I want to be and I won’t be able to give my kids the lifestyle that I want them to have and be the dad that I want to be. I’ll be stuck. You are stuck. Okay, hold on a second. There’s this great moment and it’s so beautiful. Like all of his care, all of like this. You can just see like when he’s doing a website, he’s like, “This defines how good of a dad I am. This defines how good of a person I am. That’s what the and this is so important if you’re thinking about your procrastination cuz that’s in there on some level. If you’re procrastinating over something that you consider to be important, you’ve made this thing about like what could be a fun endeavor of learning, make a website that you can do a thousand times and get it take a thousand times to get it right. You’ve turned that into I’m a shitty father if I don’t do this website right. Yeah. Put that bluntly. That hits. Yeah. So it and you also just see his like how beautiful of a man he is. Like and that’s the other thing. It’s like he’s seen I am a procrastinator. I’m seeing he is a beautiful man who cares so deeply. And if he could see himself through my eyes in that moment, there’d be nothing to procrastinate over because I’m already the thing that I want to be, right? Like the website isn’t going to make me. I’m already a sweetheart. I’m already a good father. I already care. I already love my kids. I already am providing for them. I don’t have to do anything else to deserve love. Like it’s really hard not to love a man who just looked and did that. You have to you got to be cold as ice to not love that. But he can’t love it because all he’s seen is a procrastinator. I’m sure this has nothing to do with why five minutes before we were recording, I was standing on my desk trying to tape a blanket to the window to change the lighting. Nothing to do with it. Cool. Let’s see where we go. On we go. I know. For a long time. It’s so important that it makes you stuck. Yeah. I think that beneath that is the fear that I’ll which would you rather just curious which would you rather to work for somebody else or to constantly be under the yoke of a perfectionist? Because that’s your choice right now. And I see which one you’re making. This points to the golden algorithm that we’ve talked about before, which is in his consciousness. He’s got the shape of I don’t want to be oppressed. I don’t want to be working for someone else. And that shape of his awareness of his consciousness is applying to himself. He’s become his own oppressor. He’s become the perfectionist boss. Yeah. Yeah. And generally probably 70% chance or something is he had a parent who was highly critical who was constantly telling him he wasn’t good enough which is both why he wants to not work for somebody and why he’s treating himself like this. So like if I was in a deep long-term coaching relationship with him, we would heal that relationship with the critical parent. And often times people who are procrastinators had deeply critical parents. Yeah. Yeah. And another way that can show up is seeing your parents have their relationship with work be a certain way and being like I’m not going to have that happen. Yeah. Also, is that personal there? What Brett? Little personal there. Little personal. Yeah. And they can be the same thing, you know, parents passing down the same expectation of oppression and criticism that they’ve recreated in their work life and you see it in their work life and you’re like, I don’t want anything to do with that. I want to be my own But until you get to the root of all of this, the way that you’re going to be your own boss is exactly the way you’ve been avoiding and trying to run from. Exactly. Yeah. Definitely a little personal. This one’s definitely hitting for me as well. Yeah. Cool. Let’s move on. Yeah. Okay. I see that. You want to work for yourself, you got to be a good boss. I got to take the pressure off myself. That is a way to put pressure on yourself. That’s the thing I was talking about earlier. That is him now creating something else that he needs to do to be good enough to get the love. Like that’s the pattern that his parents taught him. That’s the thing they Okay, now I have to deal with perfectionism. Once I deal with the perfectionism then I’ll be lovable. Yeah. And that like that’s the next one. Another thing to be perfectionistic about too. I got to just take the pressure off myself in just the right way. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. I can’t move forward if I’m putting pressure on myself. Yeah. I’ve got to take the pressure off myself. Yeah. Yeah. That’s pressure, isn’t it? That’s more pressure. So, how do I Could you imagine how horrible I’d be at what I’m doing right now if I needed to get a result? Mary. Probably wouldn’t be sat here still. Yeah. I would hate my job. Right. Would you know how bad this session would be if you needed to be perfect? Yeah. It’d be pretty awful. Be pretty awful. So, how do you just enjoy like right now? How do you enjoy this moment 10% more? This moment right now. Yeah, that looks like you did it. I just appreciate that I’m here. On a call with you and all these people. Yeah, that’s how you enjoy your work more, too. That’s it. That’s it. So, what I want you to do is for So, the moment I mean, you see his whole face turn red. You see the laughter. You see the somatic recognition, it probably hasn’t hit his head yet, but the somatic recognition is I don’t have to do anything. Mhm. To get that enjoyment, to get that love, to get that I just actually have to be present in this moment. I have a little appreciation like I have to actually be with the moment and his oh my. And that you can see the laughter is like, oh like at some point it’ll hit his head that oh some version of in a war with yourself you always lose. All I have to do is stop fighting and I can actually just enjoy. Yeah. What a subtle and important difference to while you are in the process of working, while you’re doing your art and your creation, coming from the place of I am enjoying whatever I’m doing right now, however it is, versus once I get this little corner on the pixels right, then I will enjoy myself. Like the difference between running across a pond with stones and running across lily pads. Yeah. Beautiful. So, what I want you to do is for the next week, I want you to sit down in front of your computer with the intention to work and enjoy yourself. And the most important thing is to enjoy yourself. The second most important thing is to work. Fantastic. Thank you. So, it’s just, oh, if I’m not enjoying myself, stop what I’m doing. Figure out a way to do it in a way that I enjoy it. Make your work something that is lovely for you to do and you won’t procrastinate. Yeah, I like that. Lovely for me to do. And the way that you closed it there by offering an experiment. Yeah. This is not something that he just learned from you and he’s gonna now have a voice in his head. That might happen a little bit. Some people were like, “Oh, I imagine Joe says this or Joe says that or Brett says whatever.” But he’s now got something to try to play with that can iterate on. It’s a first step of a many-step experiment that will integrate into his life to the extent that he runs with it. Right. And that’s what I’d say for anybody who’s dealing with procrastination is investigate, deconstruct, see through wonder is one of the steps. Experimentation is the second step. How do I do this in a way that’s more enjoyable is one experiment. You know, how do I respond to the voice in my head when it’s critical is another experiment. How do I set up a situation how do I do it in a way that’s fun? Oh, is it more fun to create the website with somebody and we do it together over the screen share or is it more fun to like, you know what, if I were him and I wanted to make sure this was fun, one of the experiments that I might run is to do it with my kid. Like, I bet he’d have a lot of fun putting that website together with his child, no matter how old the child is. So like but when you’re in that I’m bad I’m procrastinating you don’t there’s no wonder which leads to no new experiments. Yeah. Which leads to stuckness. Which leads to stuckness. Well this has been a lovely experiment. I love doing these breakdowns. Oh man that was a fun one. Really appreciated that. Thank you. To date. This has been one of our biggest videos on YouTube. So yeah, I think people I hope people really enjoy this. Yeah, I hope it gets watched. That would be great. Yeah. Awesome. Awesome. Well, thank you Joe. Thank you everybody for listening. Thank you to our participant for being so vulnerable and really showing up today. If you enjoyed what you heard today, please share it with a friend. We’d love for you to rate us on all the podcast apps. Give us five stars is my preference, but whatever many stars you feel you got out of this session. And if you’re interested in experiments, we have a page where there’s a huge amount of experiments you can try or ways of trying it and the tools. So we have so many resources that are free for you. Yeah. And the best way to be able to know all of the free resources is to sign up for the newsletter. If you sign up for the newsletter, you’ll get all the free resources coming at you as we create them. So that’s an incredibly useful way to get involved for you. Beautiful. All right, take care everybody. This episode is produced by myself and Joe Hudson. Mi Kelly is our production coordinator. Till next time.