Joe distinguishes between two modes of empathy: being with someone and being in someone. When you’re “in” someone, you’ve fully absorbed their emotional state — their conviction becomes your conviction, their anxiety becomes your anxiety. You lose the ability to see them clearly because you’ve merged with their experience. When you’re “with” someone, you maintain your own center while being genuinely present to their experience.
Being “in” someone feels like empathy but actually prevents real connection and transformation. When friends gather to validate each other’s stories without curiosity — “yeah, he’s such a jerk” — they’re all “in” each other, and nothing changes. Being “with” someone allows you to be curious: “I see you really think that — what’s going on?” That curiosity opens space for transformation.
This distinction is especially important in conflict. Fighting is about figuring out how to transform together, but if you’re absorbed in the other person’s experience, you can’t see yourself clearly enough for any transformation to occur.
“I call empathy it’s like being with somebody without being in somebody but often times we find ourselves in somebody.”
Related Concepts
- Attunement is listening without leaving yourself
- Holding space requires staying in yourself
- Every fight is about feeling unseen
- Asking ‘Is this mine?’ clarifies emotional boundaries
- Being together in emotions is different from caretaking them
- Fights can become healing opportunities within relationships