Summary
Brett interviews Jaime Waydo, CTO of Cavnue (previously Apple, Waymo, Mars Curiosity Rover), about her journey from exhaustive people-pleasing to owning her needs as a leader. As a high-EQ woman in tech, she fell into “chameleon leadership”—adapting her style to every person she managed, which she thought was good management but actually made her inconsistent and unreadable.
The pivotal realization came when she recognized that her company was paying her to be successful, so she should think about what she needs to succeed. This felt “selfish” at first, but she discovered that taking care of herself enabled her to take care of everything else. The story of crying in a parking lot nine months after her son was born—too depleted to even walk into a yoga class—illustrates the endpoint of putting everyone else first.
She received feedback at Apple that her chameleon approach made people fearful and uncertain because they couldn’t predict how she’d show up. The distinction between “meeting people where they are” and “leaving yourself to be where they are” became central to her transformation.
Key Concepts
- Chameleon leadership—adapting to everyone—creates uncertainty, not connection
- Owning your needs isn’t selfish—it’s what makes you effective
- Holding space for others requires staying centered in yourself
- High emotional intelligence without boundaries leads to depletion
- Treat problems like a patient on the table—solve without assigning blame
Key Quotes
“It’s actually okay and important to be selfish—to really go into yourself and own your wants and speak your truth and think about what you need to be successful because that’ll help everybody else be successful.”
“They’re paying me because they want me to be successful, and maybe I should think pretty hard about what are the systems I need to be successful.”
“It looks like you’re just so inconsistent. People are very uncertain about how they need to show up for you because you’re different in every room you’re in.”
“You can hold space for people but you have to stay in yourself and you have to stay centered in your knowing, your truth, your wants.”
Transcript
Brett interviews Jaime Waydo about how she learned that taking care of herself was essential to leading well. As a high-EQ woman, she fell into trying to make everyone okay—employees, kids, spouse, family—until she was empty. At nine months postpartum, she sat crying in a parking lot, too depleted to walk into a yoga class. At work, she practiced “chameleon leadership”—meeting each employee where they were—but got feedback at Apple that this inconsistency made people fearful and uncertain. They couldn’t channel her because she was different in every room. The shift came when she recognized that owning her needs wasn’t selfish—it was what made her effective. Joe’s teaching that you can hold space for others but must stay in yourself became central. The distinction between meeting people where they are versus leaving yourself to be where they are changed how she led.