Summary
In this conversation with Brett, Joe describes the origin and philosophy of his Master Class. He explains how exercises must have verbal, physical, and emotional components to be effective—and the intellect must not be dominant. The course addresses the seven things that get in the way of accomplishing what you want, not the surface symptoms.
Joe outlines who shouldn’t take the course: people who use skepticism before rather than after experiments (biasing the outcome), people who create perpetual drama in groups, and people who can’t admit there’s something to work on. Brett distills all three into one word: sincerity.
The conversation also covers how to get the most from the work (embracing intensity), how resistance in a course mirrors resistance in life, how “shoulds” create stagnation while “wants” open things up, and the power of weekly experiments done over time versus weekend intensives. Joe walks listeners through a visualization exercise to determine if the course is right for them.
Key Concepts
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The resistance that blocks you in a course is the same resistance blocking your life
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Embracing intensity is the leading indicator of transformation
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Effective exercises need verbal, physical, and emotional components
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Connection over perfection produces better results than getting it right
Key Quotes
“A lot of people say I want to quit smoking or start a business, and if you work directly on the smoking or the business then it’s not very effective. What’s more important is to look at what gets in the way.”
“When the big components get undone, 10 or 12 things in a person’s life change.”
“If you do the skepticism before you do the experiment, you’re going to destroy the experiment.”
“The same resistance that would block me from getting something out of the course is usually the same kind of resistance that would block me from getting something out of my workout.”
“What’s the leading indicator for somebody’s life transforming? It’s always embracing intensity.”
“I realized how to want to take out the trash, which changed everything for me. Where I realized that how I approached things was far more important than if I approached them.”
“A lot of the times the transformation happens no faster than we think it can happen.”
“Oftentimes people think that they have to get it right or be perfect to accomplish something, which is really not the case. Iteration is a much better approach.”
Transcript
all right Joe hey Brett man I really appreciate you uh helping us out here on um doing a little session on the master class thank you very much it’s a really powerful course and I want people to have an opportunity to kind of get to know what it is awesome yeah it’s we’ve gotten a lot of people asking more about it and I just thought this would be a cool way to do it people can decide to listen to it or not and I’m sure it’s going to be better with your questions so let’s let’s do it let’s just do a quick and dirty conversation and throw it out there yeah let’s do it yeah so so tell us tell us all a little bit about the master class what’s what’s the history where’d it come from yeah so I mean I think you know this part of it which is you know before there was the master class there was the other class courses that I did and for whatever reason you’re not supposed to do it this way but I did these 18-month courses to start off with and you were in the third version of that and those 18-month courses is is where I learned to do a lot of iteration to find the experiments and the exercises that people could do that would have the biggest the biggest difference for them so when I was doing that I looked and for exercises um created exercises that I had done in my past and just you know continually iterated and I found that things that had a verbal component a physical component an emotional component were very strong and I found that if you you couldn’t bypass the intellect but if the intellect were dominant the power the power of the exercises and experiments were far less and so that became the what I was looking for in exercises and and I it was always really important to me from the beginning just like in my coaching that everything is about a person’s wisdom not about my wisdom meaning that there here’s an exercise it’s an experiment you get to learn what you want from it you have to experience it for it to be real to you it’s not about what somebody tells you and so so I did that and came up with these really cool exercises and learned how to invent them in a way that was really meaningful and then I started to realize to do these exercises it was important that they weren’t solving the problems that people think they had they were prob solving the things that were getting in the way from getting what they wanted meaning like a lot of people say oh I want to do this I want to do that and I can’t and if you such as like quit smoking or start a business and if you work directly on the smoking or the business then it’s not very effective what’s more important is to look at what gets in the way of quitting smoking or starting the business for instance and then or just basically accomplishing what you want and then to address that stuff so I always started looking for exercises that were like that oftentimes it’s the same thing that’s stopping somebody from quitting smoking and starting a business yes something yeah something deep in there that if you just address the starting a business thing you could you could come up with a to-do list of what you need to do to start a business but it’ll still be blocked by the psychological component that’s right yeah when when the big components get undone you know 10 12 things in a person’s life change that’s exactly it yeah so and then it became and then and I was really liking the in-person stuff and and I wasn’t people had said let’s do this online and I wasn’t really compelled to do it and um and I think I I mean I don’t think I know I had a limiting belief around that and then covet hit and when covet hit I was like bored y’all had lots of living beliefs that that covered yet yeah exactly so um and Thiago approached me uh he does this course building the second brain and he approached me and said hey I really want my um my audience to be able to experience you I’ve experienced you and I think we can do this online and I was like oh it’s not going to be as powerful you know was my thought process and and then uh I just I got bored and I was like wait hold on a second let’s let’s really look at my limiting beliefs here and I realized first of all that I had learned completely without any of the exercises that I created or was teaching and and then I had learned completely remotely outside of Silent Meditation Retreat so I knew that was like wait hold on now I know there’s something possible here and I didn’t want to give up the exercises so I told him yes and and I got a group of uh students that had worked with me for some time together and we just started experimenting every week for a couple hours we would do exercises online and I got to see what worked and what didn’t work and what was powerful for them and what wasn’t and so I built the course around bad experimentation really seeing what worked for people and I built it around the seven things that I saw my clients and and any students that I’d worked with really getting in the way of whatever it is that they wanted to accomplish and so I look for exercises around those seven things and just look for the most powerful ones well it’s a little bit of a teaser here all seven things are around around things that happen generally um to people that get in their way but they’re also kind of a flip on the way that you look at things so for instance the first course the first week of the course well second I guess it is I talk about one that’s connection over Perfection so oftentimes people think that they have to get it right or be perfect to be to accomplish something which is really not the case iteration is a much better approach it’s quicker and you get better results from it and the trick for a great iteration is to stay connected with yourself stay connected with your audience stay connected with your customers stay connected with your team and if you can really focus on the connection and iterate it’s far better than Perfection you get far better results and so and that’s one example say another example is defensiveness is something that most people feel like there is something that they need to defend and every time they defend they’re cutting off a certain amount of wisdom so how do you stay open and loving instead of defensive and all of us have been in a business meeting where somebody has been defensive and you can just see progress grind to a halt and so again working with something like that and we do exercise the exercises themselves are something that are like deeply as you know deeply experiential not something you find outside of the course and so they’re they’re kind of hard to explain um so for instance one exercise that we work with is there’s just a direct questioning of somebody where you ask them over and over again how do you want to be right now how should you be right now and they get to experience the difference physically in their body what it feels like to tell themselves they should do stuff and what that creates in their body and their mind and then and then how do you want to be right now and then what does that create in your body in your mind and you get to feel it and you get to feel like how horrible shoulds are and how stagnant they create a life and how wants can open things up so it’s it’s always about just really really feeling how it lands in your body and then seeing the intellectual ramifications of it so that’s what all the experiments are and then we do them you do one-on-one work you do small group work so you do all these exercises in this way and then we have that the weekly um rapid fire coaching that we do and then the other part to this one I was like oh there’s something about doing this over eight weeks instead of doing it like over a weekend or four days and there’s a way in which we can create like a consistency in people’s lives that allows for a different kind of change and that’s when I got really excited about doing the Master Class because I realized a lot of the experiments that I ran in my own life or something that I was like oh I’m gonna do this experiment and I would do it for like two three four five six weeks and they would have a huge impact on me I remember one of the experiments I did was um I’m not going to do anything I don’t want to do this week just for a week as an example and I ended up doing it for two weeks and I remember the first week I did that experiment I didn’t take out the trash I didn’t do all the things I didn’t want to do and then I realized I don’t want to live with stinky house and so I had to learn how to want to take out the trash which changed everything for me right where I realized that how I approached things was far more important than if I approached them if I did them or not they are what you’re approaching yeah so to be able to give people a series of experiments like that that they can play with in their real life that got really exciting to me and so then that was the last part of the courses building those things that homeworks that I had seen work for my clients that I had seen work for myself and putting them in so so how does somebody listening to this tell if they are a good fit for their course wow uh good question so I think the way I think about it is uh more firstly if you’re not a good fit for the course meaning it’s easier to say what wouldn’t work so what makes somebody a bad fit is that if they’re not using their skepticism effectively what do you mean by that yeah meaning is if you’re experimenting with something it’s really important to be skeptical meaning don’t take what I say as gospel or anybody make sure that it works for you that’s critical but if you do the skepticism before you do the experiment you’re going to destroy the experiment meaning we know that whether it’s in physics or in Psychology if you have a predetermined idea of what’s going to happen it messes up the the experiment right it’s biased it’s biased that’s right so if you if you can’t be skeptical after the experiment you have to be skeptical before then it’s not it’s not as effective so I wouldn’t come if I were in that shoot if I was in those shoes um I I and that’s not to say that we do anything woo-woo we’re bit like it’s really important to me that everything is straightforward has some neurological um validity to it so but it’s really important to keep that open mind until the experiment is over and then and then use your skepticism yeah to Riff on that a little bit a lot of a lot of what I’ve learned from the courses is recognizing where just our skepticism or our doubt with ourselves and our life biases all everything that we do and just even even noticing that is part of the process noticing the way that resistance comes up in the course or in any other courses or in coaching yes like the same resistance that would block me from getting something out of the course is usually the same kind of resistance that would block me from getting the getting something out of my workout yeah exactly yeah so yes like so some people have this idea that personal transformation is hard and that would be a block to this uh course that’s fine that it is a block we have lots of ways of working with that but if you have a block like that in this course oh this transformation is going to be hard then you probably have a dozen other things that you think are hard that are also making it hard to achieve those things whereas if you realize that it doesn’t have to be hard that it’s the way you’re looking at it you get all that freedom so yeah that’s a great point another thing that makes it so that I wouldn’t do the course is you know if you have a propensity for a high drama there’s small group work here and there are certain people who just any work that they do or any friend group there’s just a tremendous amount of uh friction that they cause now some friction is going to be fine it’s actually great because you get to learn a lot through it but if you’re one of those perpetually um you know friction creators I would say be honest about that and don’t come you know don’t come to the course that wouldn’t be good and the other the other thing that would make you not right for the course is if you can’t admit that there’s something you’re working on there are certain people out there who feel like admitting that there’s anything that they’re working on or that there’s something to work on that the evolution has it has you know has a place to continue and there’s some way for them to receive more joy or happiness or accomplishment in their life if you can’t do that because you’re that protected I would say this isn’t the right course there’s there’s no answer that’s going to be given to anything besides a question that you have meaning yeah I won’t coach somebody if they don’t have a question I don’t try to convince anybody of anything I don’t want to try to get anybody anywhere it’s so motivated by where you want to be and where you want to go and so if you don’t have that and there’s people out there who don’t I would say that is not this isn’t the this isn’t the place for you it’d be a waste your money yeah so it sounds like all three of those things that you mentioned the skepticism or whether you’re whether you like to create drama or find yourself creating drama in groups or if there’s if you’re not able to admit that there’s something that you want to work on all of that sort of points to sincerity huh I haven’t thought about it yeah yeah it’s like yeah it’s totally true in each of this yeah yeah if you are sincerely here this is great and if you’re not there’s a this would be a waste of your time and it would hurt other people in the course so you should definitely not join if that’s the case yeah great so then so then let’s say somebody let’s let’s say somebody has has this sincerity they really want to take ownership of what they’re getting out of the course and you know they’ve got they’ve got stuff they want to work on and so they sign up how do how does somebody get the most out of the course yeah um this this isn’t just in this course but I would say in life if people ask me and I think we’ve talked about this before what’s the leading indicator for somebody’s life transforming it’s always embracing intensity it’s not creating an intensity it’s really going deep in this work and feeling that uncomfortable part um I’ve had people talk about this work recently I was just doing a a gig for an alphabet company yesterday in Santa Fe they were had an off-site in Santa Fe and somebody said that it’s a little bit like a teeth cleaning it’s not entirely comfortable um some of the work but you feel so great afterwards and that and then I was like oh yeah that’s a that’s a pretty darn good description of some of the stuff that we do and if you’re willing to really go into the discomfort the cleaning is far better the the refresh the clarity everything is far better so I would say that’s how you make the most of it for sure yeah I’d add to that there’s like there’s a component of looking for deeper subtleties there’s there’s a lot of exercises that at first glance might feel like they’re just a nothing Burger until you actually do it and like Let Yourself sit in it and be like wait a minute what is actually making it so uncomfortable for me to be doing this exercise with this group of people and then like oh the feelings that are coming up now yeah those are the things that are driving me and keeping me away from you know many many opportunities in life yeah or for my own growth I can’t I’m I’m smiling so hard right now because there’s there’s so many times that someone’s just like wow we’ve that we’ve done something like this before this isn’t going to be useful and then I’m like just just do it and then they have that moment of like oh and uh yeah totally it’s true it’s one of our defense mechanisms so yeah I agree yeah well what else what how else how else could somebody really get the most out of it I would say that’s it that’s it for the most out of it but I think that there’s a way to think about it as like I didn’t answer the question of what would make it a good fit and I think there is a way to think about that question which is um so let me let me just let me try this um so the first thing that I would say so if you’re sitting here and and you’ve gotten this far and you’re like okay I want to know if this is a great fit the first thing that I would do and I’ll just like guide you through this for a minute I would I would first get in touch with the thing that if you change would improve your life the most so I would say take a moment and if you can’t get to it by the time I move on just press pause and then press play but really get in touch with like what is that thing that if it changed it would improve your life the most that’s the first question and are we talking about external factors like money are we talking about internal factors like the way that I it doesn’t matter the way that I yeah great question bring up difficult conversation okay they’re all internal eventually but it doesn’t matter if you think about it like yeah I don’t have enough money or whatever yeah okay and then once you have that really in your mind then take a moment and see what your life would look like if it changed so I don’t mean just go okay yeah now I’d have money I mean take a look at like how your morning would be how your day would be what would your conversations be like how would you interact with people differently how would you view yourself differently when you looked in the mirror how would it be different what were what how would you spend your time over a year differently so really get in touch with that and really like visualize Matt for a moment of what your life looks like if this thing actually changes so that would be the second second piece and then the third piece I would say is um consider for a moment that this thing that would change your life the most it never changes see what it’s like because we think about something like not having money and there’s a feeling of that if we don’t have money today but there’s a feeling of that if I’m like 80 and I never never really figured out the the money thing or if um I never quit smoking or I never um learned how to lead people or I never learned how to have the deeper relationships that I wanted whatever it is and see what your life looks like laid out over 80 years with this never changing and feel that and again visualize it to visualize how your time gets spent visualize what’s the work you’re doing in the world okay visualize how you’re interacting with people yeah and again if take as much time with this press pause take as much time with you and then the last thing I would say to help you figure out if this is right for you is um think about what the blockers are that are stopping you from having this change and and think about the internal blockers right you think that it’s hard to do it or you think that you have to be smarter to do it or you get defensive and so people don’t like working with you or you are constantly trying to be perfect or you’re scared of what other people think or you’re um uh scared of feeling so good and that you have a fear of success so think about those blockers and there’s at least three so whatever it is the biggest thing that’s that you want that will change your life the most there’s at least three things and identify those three things at least three of them and if you want to work on those things this is the right course for you if you want to work on the things that are getting in the way of you getting what you want here and with everything else in your life not the symptoms but the the root cause then this is the this is the course for you and you should immediately know like oh wow this is if I can actually if that can actually shift then my whole life is different it’s totally worth the time and energy it takes to do the work okay so let’s let’s walk through that again just really quickly and that way people can kind of hit each question pause and if they want to do the exercise so it starts with you know Finding what’s the one thing that if it changed would improve our life the most yes and then asking what would our life look like if it did change kind of going through a day in the life five ten years from now or tomorrow if that’s tomorrow even tomorrow is even the best yeah I’ll just say this because a lot of a lot of times people think that change takes a long time and I mean you’ve seen it oftentimes changes overnight in this work so definitely tomorrow is a great way to think about it yeah yeah okay yeah so yeah it’s interesting a lot of the times the transformation happens no faster than we think it can happen yeah so we’ll have an epiphany and be like oh my God I see everything in a totally different way than I ever did before I can’t wait to get back in the world and then slowly integrate this into my life tentatively right over the course of months okay we we blew it so let’s start from the top you had it you had a great thing okay okay yeah so straight at the top yeah what’s the thing that if it changed would improve your life the most yes next one is looking at what your life would look like if it did change tomorrow yes and in the future yeah and visualize it that’s right visualize it feel it yeah and then the next question to ask would be what would your life look like what would your life look like if it stayed the way it is now forever yeah that’s right now 80 years from now yes feeling that feeling whatever disappointment or whatever acceptance or Joy or yes whatever you might find on the other side that’s right and then asking what are the blockers that stop you from having this change you want right now and having it be fun and easy that yeah that’s a complete thanks for adding that yeah fun and easy what would it take for this change to be able to be possible and to be fun and easy right awesome and and list anything that stops that and if you want to work on the stuff that stops that then that is this is the course for you awesome awesome well I’m really looking forward to this year’s course yeah and it’s a fun day ahead of time yeah guys Brett is red is part bread is part of the um part of the people leading so it’s fantastic yeah yeah awesome all right thank you man thank you so much for taking the time to do this and I I hope it’s helpful for all the people who are interested in the course yeah you got it thank you Joe you’re welcome.