Summary
A woman comes to Joe stuck in two years of relationship indecision — she can’t commit to her boyfriend but can’t break up either. Joe immediately notices she frames the problem around her boyfriend’s pain rather than her own, revealing a codependent pattern. She identifies as codependent and attends meetings for it.
Joe helps her see that her indecision is actually a symptom of a deeper pattern: she cycles between shame (“I fucked up”), anger at her boyfriend (“can you just calm down?”), and anxious people-pleasing — all to avoid feeling the heartbreak of witnessing his pain. When Joe role-plays her boyfriend’s anger and asks her to simply think “this is about his trauma, not about me,” she can see it clearly. The real issue isn’t indecision — it’s that she can either anxiously try to please him, get angry at herself or him, or face the heartbreak. Her job is to be with his pain when she can, and leave when she can’t — everything else is codependence.
Key Concepts
- Indecision means unfelt emotions
- Codependence comes from not owning wants
- Codependent cycling between shame and anger avoids heartbreak
- Framing problems around others reveals codependence
Key Quotes
“Of course you’re indecisive.”
“You either have to feel anger towards self or anger towards him. Or you have to be codependent.”
“Your job is to when you can be with this pain and when you can’t, leave. Everything else is just the whole codependence.”
“I don’t see you not being good to him. I just see you avoiding the sadness that comes with his pain.”
Transcript
I wanted to talk to you because I’m just I’m completely driving my boyfriend crazy myself crazy and I would like to stop in some way, but I really I’ve been stuck in this for like two years. Okay. My guess is it’s longer. My guess is with this boyfriend two years with this boyfriend two years. Right. And so like when’s the first time you had recognition of driving people crazy in this particular way? Um, no, not this particular way. Oh, I’m not sure. Um, related things for a long time, I guess. Okay, great. And what’s the particular way you’re doing it now? Uh, I’m very He’s very like, I want to move forward with you. Let’s go. And I’m like, uh, can’t break up with you. also not going forward with it. Are you the right person? Gotcha. So, you’re an indec you he’s caught in your indecision. Yes. And I feel very frozen around it and I know that it’s really hurting him. Okay. And the way you drove people crazy before was how I don’t exactly feel like I Well, so more I would just be like everything’s fine and then eventually like break up with people with no notice. Okay. Gotcha. Right. would you drive them crazy in an acute fashion instead of and now it’s kind of chronic. Yeah. Yeah. I got it. I got it. Um and so what’s interesting to me is that you you asked me the question not like, hey, I’m an indecision. It’s causing me pain. How do I stop? You asked me the question as like I’m driving my boyfriend crazy as if he’s like the the subject matter, not you. What makes you what made you phrase it around your boyfriend instead of phrase it around your own pain and suffering regarding your indecision? Um it the like the stuff around him feels more painful. Like I feel a lot of like shame. I’m scared that he’s going to be mad at me. Like I just want to stop doing things that upset him. Yeah. Right. So goodness gracious. Of course you’re indecisive. Yeah. You want to live with that the rest of your life? No. Right. So the question is the question really like how much of the question is about how do I stop being indecisive and how much of the question is how do I live with this man in a way in which I don’t lose myself perpetually so I don’t know if I want to be with him. Yeah. No 100%. I I have been trying to figure that out for a while. I would identify as like a codependent person and I go to meetings about it and stuff. Um Okay. Okay. So, let maybe we work on that instead of the like indecision because it sounds like that’s kind of the core then. Um so, um so, so he’s pissed. What’s the problem? Oh, it’s intolerable. Um, what do you have to feel when he’s pissed? Just I I sort of cycle between like, oh shit like I really fucked up. I’ve been like lying to him in some way or I just am like I should just break up with him. And then I’m like he is very What do you have to feel? Shame. It sounds like shame. Shame is one of them. Yeah. Do I fuck up? What’s the other thing you cycle between? What’s the other? Uh, mad at him because I’m like, can you just calm down? Okay. So, it’s like you have to feel your own anger and shame, which is basically anger towards self. You either have to feel anger towards self or anger towards him. Or you have to be codependent. So, it’s either I’m going to constantly please you. You’re going to feel anxiously trying to please, or you’re going to feel anger at him or yourself. Yeah. So, what makes anxiously trying to please more acceptable than anger at him or yourself? Uh, I mean, it’s like I feel like I have been not there in a lot of ways for like a long time and that’s more comfortable. Like, I don’t know. I feel like I You’re not there in either way. Anxiously trying to please him. You’ve left. angry at him. You’re a little more there if you’re angry at him or yourself, I guess, to some degree, but you’re still you still left. So, what makes it that that anxiously trying to please him is more comfortable than being angry at him and yourself or yourself. Like, literally feel them both for a minute. Like, feel that feeling of, “Oh my god, is he going to be upset? What did I do wrong? Fuck you. What did I do wrong? Fuck you.” Like what what makes one more difficult than the other? No, they’re both really bad. So how do like so so the other thing that I just want we’re going to go over to the left and then we’re going to come back to the main questioning over to the left is how often when anybody gets mad at you do you do the thing where you’re like what did I do fuck you okay mostly what did I do depends on the person but yeah 100% so somehow in your mind the way you know if you’ve done something wrong is if somebody else is angry. Yeah. How like let’s look at that for just a second. What like why do we use that as a guide to what you fucked up? Let’s let’s make it real life for a second. What? Give me He gets angry like at something probably somewhat repetitively. What’s the thing he gets angry at repetitively? Oh, I know. I’ve got it. Actually, I know it. I already got it. Okay. All right. Okay. I’m going to get angry and you are going to look at me and you’re going to think and I’m going to say it, right? But you’re going to look at it’s going to be come from me, not from the boyfriend. You’re going to look at me and you’re going to literally have the thought process that is, oh, this is about his trauma. This isn’t about me. That’s all you’re going to think. Yep. Yeah. Okay. Why can’t you just decide if you’re gonna be with me or not? Why are you laughing and smiling? This is serious. I’m I’m hurting over here. Why can’t you decide to be with me or not? Yeah. So there is the real thing. Oh, it’s hard to You can either anxiously try to do this thing of keeping him happy or you can get angry at yourself or others. All of it is to avoid this the heartbreak of this. Yeah. I just want to like I want to be good to him, but it’s it’s hard. Some I I don’t see you not being good to him. I just see you avoiding the sadness and and that comes with his pain. you’re here on this call trying to work this out. I mean, that’s that’s you being good to him. He’s in a lot of pain a lot of the time. That’s right. And that your job is to when you can be with this pain and when you can’t leave. Everything else is just the whole codependence. All that is just an avoidance to not be there with that in him and that in yourself. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. You’re so welcome. What a pleasure to meet you. Thanks for watching this co-stream video. And it’s probably the sexiest thing that we do here at the art of accomplishment. But by no means is it the most effective. The most effective thing that we do for transformation and changing people’s lives is our courses. And the best place to start our coursework is with the connection course. 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