Summary
Joe analyzes a scene from “This Is 40” to reveal the universal patterns in couple fights. He identifies the agitator/avoider dynamic, shows how communication techniques get weaponized without the right inner state, and explains how shame gets passed back and forth like a “hot potato.”
The core insight: fights happen because boundaries weren’t held and truths weren’t spoken. By the time people are fighting, they’re yelling their boundaries instead of holding them, and both people’s “defenses” feel like attacks to the other.
Key Concepts
- avoider dynamic in relationships
- Communication techniques get weaponized without the right state
- Shame gets passed back and forth in fights
Key Quotes
“If she wants the fight, it means that she is not holding a boundary. She’s angry because she’s not holding a boundary.”
“When somebody learns a communication technique, what they’re learning is how to say something, but they’re not learning where to come from when they say it.”
“If you actually say something that’s true that hasn’t been said, there’s some relief that gets created.”
“There’s two people who are in shame. They haven’t said their truth because they’re ashamed of their needs and wants. They haven’t drawn their boundaries because they’re ashamed. And now they’re just passing that shame back and forth.”
“Each of their defenses builds into a deeper and deeper fight because each of their defenses is an attack to the other person.”
Transcript
In this video, we’re going to watch a clip of a movie called This Is 40. And we’re going to look at all the common patterns inside of a fight. It hurts me inside and triggers me when you’re such a dishonest And what you can do about it, and how when a marriage falls apart, what’s behind that and how to fix it. Okay, let’s get started. How’s the record company going, Pete? What? Not great. I’m still waiting for numbers to come in. Okay. So, we’re going to just pause right there right off the bat. She wants the fight. What? So, if she wants the fight, it means that she is not holding a boundary. She’s angry because she’s not holding a boundary. You can see right at the beginning, his jaw is tight, which means he’s angry and he’s not holding a boundary. So, that’s definitely going to come in the scene at some point during the fight, people start yelling their boundaries instead of actually holding their boundaries. So, you know that that’s all going to happen. And you can tell immediately, like in a lot of relationships, one person is the agitator and one person is the avoider. One’s not better or worse. We often think the agitator is the bad guy. They’re like hysterical or yelling or something like that. And the other person’s the calm person, but they’re in a dynamic together. One avoiding the scenario because they’re walking on eggshells. And then there’s the other one who’s like, “Hey, we have to talk about this.” But they do it in such a way that of course it pushes the other person away and they don’t want to deal with it. So all all that is set up immediately and that similar setup is in a ton of fights. So this is great. Okay, here we go. Let’s see what happens. What have you heard? A couple numbers have trickled in. It’s lower than we expected. You can see it all in the body language. He’s moving backwards. Why are you giving Larry money? I know everything. I talked to the accountant. All right. You know what? I don’t want to get into some nasty fight. So, can we please talk to each other the way the therapist told us to talk to each other? Fine. Fine. It makes me feel sad when you are dishonest. I understand it makes you feel bad when I am dishonest with you. It hurts my feelings when you treat me with contempt. I’ve been here. I have been here. and corner me and try and trick me into lying. Okay. It makes me sad when it’s so easy to trick you into lying because you’re such a lying we’re going to stop a bag. So So typically this actually is more common than anything else that I’ve ever seen. So typically when somebody learns a communication technique, what they’re learning is how to say something, but they’re not learning where to come from when they say it. This is actually why we created the connection course because what we saw was that all of the communication techniques that are taught as soon as the mind goes then the communication technique just becomes weaponized which is what you’re seeing happening here. And I think the communication technique that they’re trying to use there is nonviolent communication and I have been exactly in this place in a fight with my wife before. So I can feel for these two. That’s not You can’t do that. You can’t do that. The therapist said you’re not allowed to judge me. That’s not a judgment. That’s just a fact. That’s a fact. Fair enough. Sometimes I withhold truth that is true. Okay. Here in the scene, it’s amazing. And this happens a lot in fights two. If you actually say something that’s true that hasn’t been said, there’s some relief that gets created. And here you just see like a little bit relief. She just called him a and he doesn’t react as badly. He actually steps up, steps up and gets engaged. Now, not everybody’s going to do this, but you’ll see that actually happen when the truth is spoken. Because most of the fights that are happening is I’ve been holding back my truth, you’ve been holding back your truth, and so we haven’t said the things that are important to us, and now we’re really pissed off. And so, they come at each other like lightning instead of actually having those conversations earlier on. Again, boundaries have been crossed, truths haven’t been said, and that’s really where the fight starts kicking into gear. So, let’s see what he says about being a line shipbag. I think it is. Let’s see. But it’s only because I’m scared to death of your crazy ass, illogical overreactions. Well, it hurts me inside and triggers me when you’re such a dishonest that you’re lending your father money without telling me while your record company’s going bankrupt and we’re on the verge OF LOSING OUR HOUSE. OKAY. First of all, crazy cut to the girl. That one breaks my heart, which is what a beautiful piece of scenery that is. What’s happening here is that there’s two people who are in shame. They’re they haven’t said their truth because they’re ashamed of their needs and their wants. They haven’t drawn their boundaries because they’re ashamed. And now they’re just passing that shame back and forth. I call this the shame ball or the shame hot potato. You’re bad for being crazy. You’re bad for lending money. you’re bad for losing the house. You’re bad for and they’re just going back and forth doing this. And so each of them to some degree when they’re in a fight like this feel like they’re defending themselves. Like, oh, I’m defending myself. I’m telling you that I’m not being honest with you because you go a little crazy, but for you that’s an attack. And I’m telling you, I’m going a little crazy because you’re lying, but for you that’s an attack. And so each of their defenses builds into a deeper and deeper attack which is just having them lose each other and lose a relationship and poignantly showing that it’s also losing their kid. That’s just heartbreaking. What else are you lying about? I’ve taken Viagra for 2 years. I ate six muffins downstairs a while ago, and my cholesterol level is 305. My heart could explode at any second. These might be my very last words. Oh, and I gave Charlotte antibiotics when you weren’t looking. That’s why her ear got better. So, go your witch doctor. What are we even doing? What are we doing? Oh my goodness. Uh, yeah. So, here it is. Finally, we’re in a fight. So, now I can actually speak my truth, which is why a lot of people actually get in their fights. For months, he has not been telling her what he really needs to take care of his kid. Most of his hiding, which is very typical. Most of his hiding is to stop her from having a reaction. He’s trying to control her by hiding. It makes her feel more disconnected, makes her feel like she’s pulling away, that he’s pulling away even more, and then she gets more and more angry. And that’s typical. The more the person avoids, the more the other person feels abandoned and then they get angrier to try to get that engagement. On the other side, the more angry she gets, the more he avoids and the more he feels disconnected. And so the more he runs away to feel that sense of safety and then the more they’re disconnected. And this is what’s going back and forth. And so what really is required is for both of them to feel seen. That there is a place for them to feel seen. that there’s a place where they can hang out, be themselves, and nobody’s going to judge or yell at them or freak out. And they’ve taken that away from each other. So, of course, the love is just like drained out of a marriage like this. If it’s been happening like this for years, it it just there’s no way that the love lasts. This is not making me happy. You’re not happy. You don’t like me. I can feel that. I’m not blind. Jesus, we’re like business associates. So, once again, she’s speaking a truth and like the the energy of the fight comes down. And this happens a lot in a fight, which is I mean, brilliant that they actually capture this on screen. I think that’s very rare. When the truth is spoken and you’re not trying to manage the other person, you’re not defending yourself. You’re just like, “Fuck, this sucks. I can see what’s happening here. This sucks.” Then the fight can start coming down because people feel seen when the truth is spoken. Especially if it’s spoken without an attack, which is what’s happening right here. We’re like brother and sister. There’s no passion there. We’re not like brother and sister, you know? We’re like we’re like Simon and Garuncle. And somehow you turned me into Garfuncle. I don’t even know what that means. Art Garfuncle. What’s wrong with Art Garuncle? He has a beautiful voice. He’s got an AMAZING VOICE. HE COULD PUT A HARMONY TO ANYTHING. BUT WHAT I’M SAYING is that you turn me into him. What the hell are you talking about? Simon controls him. That’s because Simon writes the songs. He’s the better one. You know what? I see the way you look at our kids. You have so much love and compassion for them. You never look at me like that. Okay. Ever. So, he feels controlled. He feels controlled because he’s not speaking his truth. He’s not speaking his truth because he’s scared of her emotions. He’s not actually controlled. He’s just scared of her emotions, but because he feels like he has to do a certain thing to keep her emotions in check, then he feels controlled. But what’s actually happening is he’s just scared of her emotions. And then she feels like she’s better than him. Simon’s the better one. And that’s so typical in a relationship that one or both people think that they’re better. And all that better is doing is protecting them from having their heart broken. So she’s saying, “I’m better than you.” But what she’s really saying in that moment is I am crushed over the fact that the love has drained out of our marriage, that you don’t love me anymore, that you don’t see me, and you don’t even want to be with me. So instead of feeling all that, I’m just going to feel like I’m better than you. Would we even still be together if I didn’t get pregnant 14 years ago? You know what? I’m not going to go down that road. That would we So, in that moment, she asks him a real question and he avoids again. And she’s like, “Wh you’re pulling away again. There’s nothing I can do.” Instead of him actually engaging in that moment, which is the real way to turn that fight into a great relationship, is to say, “I’m scared that that’s not the case, and I don’t know what to do, and I want to be able to fix it, but I have no idea how to fix it.” and there’s a part of me that doesn’t want to fix it because I’m scared that you’re gonna be yelling at me my whole life. Instead of having that like full and real conversation, not one part of it, but the whole thing, which is where the marriage can actually start to change when the truth is spoken, he avoids again and she’s just like, I’m out of here. And so, she walks away. Of course, he doesn’t want her to completely go away. And she doesn’t completely want to go away. So, let’s see what happens. You know what? I don’t want to have a party here. You need to cancel it. No, I’m not. Okay, hold on a second. You need to cancel it. So, she’s trying to control him. She’s threatening. She’s like, “Oh, I’m not going to get what I want, so I’m going to go you.” So, she just needles him to get that engagement again, which is what happens in a fight. And he I already paid for the catering. I’ve put down deposits, and I sure as I’m not going to call everybody back in two days when you change your mind. And he draws a boundary, which actually is probably a good start for healing that marriage if they actually could have the conversation.