Summary
Joe breaks down a moment from Theo Von’s podcast, where Theo wrestles aloud with the question from the Gospel of John — “Do you want to be healed?” Joe uses the clip to illuminate something he’s watched thousands of people miss on the transformational journey: they can’t recognize how much has already changed in them. Theo hedges — “I think I want a new story” — and Joe shows that the hedge itself, the willingness to sit in the question rather than speed past it, is the transformation already happening.
Along the way Joe names the self-abuse hidden in Theo’s apologies (“I’m sorry to make this about me”), the childhood logic by which a mother who wouldn’t meet his eyes left him concluding something was wrong with him, and the people-pleasing self that grew from delegating his worth to others. Crucially, Joe points out that the old wound is not the only story to release — the recent epiphany about that wound has itself become a rut. Every epiphany eventually becomes a future container if it isn’t held lightly.
The throughline is trust. Joe argues that at a certain depth, transformation is as guaranteed as a toddler learning to walk; you don’t have to force it, you only have to bring awareness to it and let that awareness settle. The “I have to let go” effort actually slows the process. The hungry craving for attention quiets not by getting more attention but by finally digesting the love and impact that are already there. And the fastest healing happens not in the polished story but at the raw edge — the heartbreak moment where Theo realizes he knows how to withhold love and doesn’t want to anymore.
Key Concepts
- The first real question is whether you actually want to be healed
- You can’t recognize your own transformation in its early stages
- The most recent epiphany becomes the next rut
- Paying attention to a pattern changes it on its own
- Digesting the attention you already have stops the hungry ghost
Key Quotes
“Do you want to be healed? And that’s a crazy question because if I get healed then I’m different. If somebody gets healed, they have a new story.”
“You don’t get to this level of questioning unless the story is actually probably already changed.”
“Often times the way we think about it is that every epiphany becomes a future rut.”
“The whole ‘I have to’ thing actually slows down the process.”
“A tree doesn’t have to tell itself to reach towards the sun. It just happens. And similarly, he’s reaching towards the sun. He doesn’t have to worry about it. It’s happening.”
“If you want to get rid of that hungry ghost, you have to digest the attention.”
“The biggest hack that he has is to actually trust who he is and the movement itself rather than being a place of thinking that he has to be more to deserve the thing that’s coming.”
Transcript
In this beautiful video that Theo Von put out on his podcast, I break down something that happens for a lot of folks when they’re on a transformational journey where they have a hard time recognizing everything that they’re actually doing and it prevents them from moving faster. It’s a amazing video and it’s just full of courage and I hope you enjoy it. There’s a story called John 5 and it’s about a guy who’s at these pools and he’s been sick for a long time. And Jesus asks him, “Do you want to be healed?” He asks him, “Do Do you want to be healed?” [snorts] And that’s a crazy question because you know, if I get healed then I’m different. You know, if if somebody gets healed, they have a new story. I don’t know how he got there but that’s freaking fantastic that he’s there. Because often times people automatically think to themselves, “Oh, I want to be rich. I want to be healed. I want to be different. I want to be transformed. I want to not feel guilty. I want to not be jealous.” Whatever that is. And they never actually stop to ask if they really want it. And the fact that he’s confronting it is really good and he’s not just immediately speed bumping to go, “Of course I want to change. Yeah, da da da da da.” He’s really wrestling with it and it tells you that not only is he in the question, he also sees that the the behavior of his past has been useful in some way. Like somehow or or another it served him. And so he recognizes that there’s a fear of letting go to something letting go of something. So that’s that’s amazing. So just getting to this point is pretty is pretty awesome. So that’s just been something that I’ve been having to ask myself. It’s like, “Yeah, do I want to be healed? Do I really want something different?” And sometimes a lot a lot of the answer is no. I don’t. I want something different, but I don’t want to I don’t know if I’m if I’m scared of I don’t know what I am. I don’t know if I don’t know want to do what it takes to get I I I can’t even tell what it is. The thing that would actually move his situation a lot quicker is to stop making it so much about him and understanding that there’s a natural process going on at this point. Because when you get to a certain level of the journey, it’s not like you can you can stop. It’s as guaranteed as a toddler learning to walk. And it’s the same thing here. It’s just so obvious that that’s what’s going to happen because you don’t get to this level of questioning unless the story is actually probably already changed. It’s hard for me This is so some of this stuff is a little bit hard for me to say. I think I don’t even know why. But I I think I want a new story. Even there he’s saying I think I want. The hedge is still in it. But he clearly wants it or he wouldn’t even be having that question. It’s just the way he’s holding it. It’s almost more like he’s like clicking up the roller coaster ride and he’s like, “I think I want to be on the roller coaster ride.” [laughter] You don’t really have a choice. You know, my story in my life and I’m sorry to make this about me kind of but I’m just trying to share like um There it is again. There’s the self-abuse. I’m sorry to make it about me. This isn’t about you. You’re sharing something deeply vulnerable that’s going to help everybody that you share this with or at least a great number of people. What makes you think it is it’s about you? And so there’s that like self-abuse of I’m responsible for other people’s happiness. I’m responsible for being good enough. There’s something in that category that’s happening. And that’s the self-abuse that hopefully is at least part of the story that he wants to let go of. I love my mother. You know, but she didn’t connect with me. She didn’t like look at me. And uh And she didn’t you know, she wouldn’t hold me that much and she didn’t look She She wouldn’t look me in the eyes, right? And uh And so as a kid, I felt like I felt like something was wrong with me, you know, I felt like oh, if Ouch. If the person that created me won’t even look at me, then something must be so wrong with me. That right there is everybody, uh but it just sounds a little different. If the person who created me tells me I can’t cry, there must be something wrong with me. If the person that created me tells me I need too much attention, then there must be something wrong with me. If the person who made me can’t look me in the eye, there’s something wrong with me. Like this is He’s basically pointing beautifully and directly to the thing that makes us think that there’s something wrong with us. Right? Is that like we In every way that we couldn’t get our natural needs met and nobody can meet all of our needs, we’re going to find a way to make that about us cuz otherwise you have to think, oh I’m all alone in this world as like a 3-year-old and nobody knows what the going on and nobody can take care of me. You know, and I’ve worked through a lot of this stuff. And so I’m kind of going down this lane. Um But it I just gave me with It gave me like a lot of a lot of low self-worth. You know, it just gave me low And it on it honestly it made it tough for me to even have a self because the only person that I only knew who I was if you reacted to me well, right? Like I became just a people-pleaser because I didn’t have any feelings of self-worth. So the only way I could get my worth was from you, right? From somebody else. And it made sense cuz I didn’t have a me. You know, I didn’t have a big sense of self and so So this is beautiful. And I don’t know if this is the story that he wants to get rid of, but what’s really beautiful is this is a story that clearly when he figured it out, when he learned this moment that he didn’t have a sense of self and that he was like delegating his self-worth to other people. It was a a moment of relief. He saw something. There was clarity. There was an epiphany. And often times when you’re in the journey of transformation, there’s two things [snorts] that are hard to let go of. One is the old story of the past, but the other one is the recent epiphany of the very recent past. All right, that’s a great story, but you can tell like it’s automatic. It’s not fresh. He’s not on his edge when he’s telling you that story. That’s that’s a story he’s told many, many times. And so part of the creating the new story for him is that letting go of that story, too. Letting go of the story of that he got his self-worth. I mean, not that it wasn’t true at the time, but there’s 10 other stories that you could tell about that. You could tell that he was trying to get love and trying to get the care that he always needed. And and he still is today. There’s a There’s another story that you could tell, which is you know, uh him getting people to like him is what made him really successful in his career and therefore I need to keep people liking me. There’s like a thousand stories that you can tell there. And so often times the way we think about it is that every epiphany becomes a future rut. That it is really good for the moment, but eventually it’s another avenue to contain yourself by instead of finding who you really are. And so when you’re finding a new story for yourself, often times you’re not just changing a very, very old story. You’re also changing the most recent epiphany. I got myself from who you thought I was. And I needed everybody to like me. I I needed everybody to like me because I I didn’t know if I didn’t know if I didn’t know if there was a one person that didn’t like me if the one of the the plate stopped spinning if it was all going to fall down. So anyway, sorry, I’m kind of rambling, but Again, he’s apologizing. Um But the the the the thing that also happened was that whole all of that energy, that negative energy, uh that uncertainty, the that became my story, right? And it gave me like a chip on my shoulder where it was like This is what we tell ourselves. If we’ve had some sort of success, even if we haven’t, we’ll tell ourselves that chip on the shoulder is what made us strong. We think that it was necessary because we have achieved some level of success. But if we look at people with big chips on their shoulders, you know, does that is that actually the telltale sign of success? Obviously not. Lots of people are lead horrible lives with big chips on their shoulders. So that’s one thing. The other thing is he’s talking about self, which is really interesting. He’s like, okay, I don’t have a sense of self. I think there’s a different way to look at that, which is I don’t have a sense of self or I don’t know how to connect with my sense of self. I’m not used to connecting there. So not having a sense of self is very hard to What I What the hell do you do with that? Like, what do I do if I if I don’t have a sense of self? Go have a sense of self, you know, where where’s the instructions? What are the operating instructions? The other way to look at it is like, oh no, we all have a sense of self. Our minds are talking about us all the time. And we’re wondering what people think of us. So there’s some sense of self. The question isn’t do you have it? The question is, have you learned to connect with it? And that’s I think one of the things that you find in the connection course all the time is that when people actually spend time learning to connect with themselves and others, their sense of self becomes both more solid and more flexible at the same time, meaning that they are more able to listen to themselves and act from their truth, but they’re less defensive and less personal. It gave me all of that. It gave me all of that energy. Like I’ll prove to them. I’ll prove to somebody that I’m Yeah. that I I’m worth something. I just want to look in somebody’s eyes and have them be pleased with me. That’s what I That’s what I wanted. Yeah. So here’s a weird part is like now there’s hundreds of thousands of people who are looking at you pleased with you, Theo, and and so what makes that still this empty craving? And typically it’s because that’s never let in. Right? Typically somebody will continue to crave that and continue to take action on that if they don’t actually allow the fact that like there’s a whole bunch of people who relate to you, who see you, who like you, who want to be around you, who feel like you’re adding something to their lives. You’re making a difference for people right now. Probably 10,000 people are touched by this and and and it’s making them think about themselves. Like that’s that’s beautiful. That’s important. And typically you keep on chasing the attention if you can’t actually fully allow that in, allow that to break your heart. Allow yourself to like be grateful and and to be grateful recognize the impact that you’re actually having on people. And then you don’t need to do it with hundreds of thousands. Most of us, you know, have a hard time even doing it with our kids or our wife to fully allow that impact in. But if you’re want to get rid of that hungry ghost, you have to digest, you know, the attention. So it gave me all this energy. It was like, you know, I’m going to figure this out. I’ll never I’ll do it myself. I’ll figure, you know, and all that stuff served me well until I think just now it’s like uh I don’t know. I’m just tired of living that story, man. I’m tired of that So, even the fact that he’s calling it a story, he’s separated it from himself, which is already a sign that there’s something changing. You know, it’s been a good story and it’s served me well. Dang, homie. I’m I’m leaking. I think yeah. It’s been a good story and it’s served me well, but I don’t want that story anymore. You know, I want something different. So, it is different. It’s already This is the amazing thing about transformation. When you’re transforming, especially in the early stages, you can’t even recognize. It’s like this is different. This is not driven by that same neurosis. This is vulnerable. This is being true to yourself in front of people rather than trying to please people. Right? He’s taking that long pause and reflecting on your where you are in the moment right before he said, “Oh, I want a new story.” Like that wasn’t for anybody else. So, it’s already changing and he can’t even recognize it and that’s not a him thing. That’s just the way it works in earlier stages of transformation, it’s really hard to recognize how much has transformed. You know, I stay in that world. I stay in that cycle. For me and I think I So, he’s obviously breaking it. He’s obviously breaking it right now. Yeah, so I want to have a I think I and it’s scary to say that I want to have a new story because I’m so used to like how those other feelings work. I know who to be angry at. I know how to operate here and I know how to operate there and I know who to not give love to and I you know. That one shook him. That last one shook him. That’s actually the key. I know how to do this. I know and then when he said I know who to not give love to and I he knew there was some part of him that was like no I want to give love to everybody. I’m guessing but I’m saying 90% probability that was the thought in his mind at that minute. Like wait no, I don’t want to not give love to somebody. And and like feeling that longing, being in that like oh that moment, that heartbreak. That’s where the transformation happens the quickest. Not in all the story above it but like he’s he found his edge and it’s like how do you stay there? Anyways, it’s beau- I mean god he’s just so impressive. I know how to make like love like very conditional. I know how to like do all these I know how to navigate to get this up vehicle down the street. And I never thought I would be saying some of this stuff but I’m glad that I am because I just I’m ready for a new story. I’m ready for a new story. So check it out cuz language is now I guess I want a new story to I’m ready for a new story. So just literally spending time in the question. Just literally putting attention to something. Just bringing your awareness to it is starting to change his languaging. That that’s like people make it so complicated. And sometimes it’s just bringing your awareness to it and letting that awareness settle in it and feeling what’s happening and connecting with yourself while you’re doing it is all that’s necessary and he’s that’s all he’s doing. And you can see in the moment how it’s healing. And I’m ready for like Yeah, and the scary part is I don’t I like is who will I be if I let go of these things that I’ve always done and known some of these behaviors. If I even can let go of some of them and and I know I’m not going to get anything right or whatever and I there’s no like it’s just like uh If I can even let go of them. You don’t need to, you know? All of us we think that like it’s our job to let go of it. And but what he’s doing right now is he’s not thinking about letting go of it or not letting go of it. He’s just paying attention to it and it starts changing on its own. So, the whole I have to thing actually slows down the process. And then he sees that on some level. He energetically, emotionally gets it. And so he says, “I know I can’t get it right. So, like like let’s not fuss with trying to get everything perfect.” The other move that he can make is like it’s not me, right? It’s It’s like not up to me and he has a strong faith in God. So, maybe you put it in your God box, you know, maybe you and which is an idea of like, “Oh, I’ll let God take care of that.” Or if you don’t have a strong relationship with God, you know, can you say, “Oh, like this thing is already moving. Like I don’t I can just watch it. I can just be with it. I can just feel myself because I naturally want to evolve. I A tree doesn’t have to tell itself, you know, to reach to towards the sun. It just happens. And similarly, he’s reaching towards the sun. He He doesn’t have to worry about it. It’s It’s happening. [sighs] I don’t know, man. I don’t even know what I’m saying. I’m kind of tired. Um tired of the story. What What can I What can I suggest, do you think, Trevin, or offer some thought? Do you have any thought about any of this? You’re doing it. That’s what I would say. I would say like you’re the two things to recognize is that like your nature is to evolve. Your nature is good. The The journey is easier the more you can recognize that. And that surrender is really important and that self-honesty is really important and asking the questions is really important, but you’re really doing everything that’s necessary. There’s a couple of hacks that we we have that we can talk about, but if I’m working with the other this place, I wouldn’t even give him the hacks. I would I would like the biggest hack that he has is to actually trust who he is and and the movement itself rather than being a place of thinking that he has to be more to deserve the thing that’s coming. I think it’s it’s really hard and I think praying is a great first step if you don’t know where to go or how to break this break a cycle. Yeah. Yeah, that that that’s it. I just like yeah, I just start like that’s that’s something that’s helped me is I just started praying but I started praying like like as honestly as I could. It’s [sighs] I mean it’s so beautiful. It’s like he’s naturally finding that thing that we teach in the connection course and like view, the vulnerability of being super honest. Right? You can see that part really online with him. You can see that he’s really in wonder. He’s like, “Do I want to heal? Do I not?” Like I know I do, I know I don’t. Like he’s not confining himself into a box and he’s got those two things like deeply there he’s also feeling he’s a he’s empathetically with himself. Um the place probably where he gets a little bit of extra boost is the impartiality of view. That thing we teach in the connection course of like not needing to be in a particular place but allowing that to be there. Allowing that having trust and faith in yourself and in the situation that it moves in that direction. And and he’s even got a lot of that when you start like thinking about his faith and his relationship with God. So it’s it’s unbelievably it’s beautiful. What a what a amazing example um Theo’s [music] putting out to the world. It’s very cool.