Summary
Joe’s 17-year-old daughter Esme interviews him for a school podcast assignment about where she came from. Instead of the assigned topic, she chose to explore what it was like for Joe to raise her in the context of his emotional development work. The conversation is intimate and revealing — both as a demonstration of the parent-child relationship this work can produce and as a window into the challenges.
Joe describes parenting as the most important work he ever did for his own freedom, noting that you can fool yourself on a meditation pillow but not with kids. Esme shares memories of yelling coaching advice through doors at age seven, mediating conflicts at school, and eventually pulling away from meditation because it made her too different from her peers.
The episode culminates in a deeply emotional exchange about the quality of their relationship — Esme’s self-possession, her high standards for connection, and the bittersweet reality that being raised this way can be lonely when the world doesn’t meet you at the same depth.
Key Concepts
- Parenting is the deepest ego work you can do
- Being raised with emotional depth can create loneliness
- Joy is the sign that emotional fluidity is working
- We build communities to create spaces where love can be fully expressed
Key Quotes
“Raising you was like the work. You and your sister were one of the greatest teachers that I’ve ever had.”
“You can pretend you’re at peace, you can pretend you’re awake — but yeah, how patient are you really?”
“Dad, I just need to be sad. You don’t need to take care of that.”
“Dad, you always taught me that allowing heartbreak helps you love — but you never told me it could feel so good.”
“It is sometimes a little bit lonely to not feel like I’m being met on the same level of connection that I want to meet people with.”
Transcript
accomplishment where we explore how deepening connection with ourselves and others leads to creating the life we want with enjoyment and ease welcome back everybody the holiday season is in full swing and it’s likely that many of you are gathering with family this week so today’s episode is a family episode and joining us is Joe’s daughter Esme Esme was given a school assignment to make a podcast about where she came from by interviewing a person from her family about a meaningful experience in their life Esme decided to deviate from that task and follow her interest she wanted to know what it was like for her dad to raise her when her assignment was complete Joe asked her if it was all right to make it available to the community and to our listeners so as May agreed and what follows is the touching interview between Esme and her dad Joe I hope you enjoy it thanks for coming on to the podcast Dad I really appreciate it of course I’d love I love spending time with you in any way that I can appreciate it yeah wait wait wait wait I think we should tell everybody what’s your day what’s the day today it’s my birthday it’s your birthday congratulations and he took me out to out to breakfast it was delicious I’m glad it was a it was a breakfast place that we that you’ve been going to since you were like one year old when Mom needed to sleep I would carry you there and we haven’t been in years it was it was such a great idea that you had to go there thank you for that it was really nice to be back yeah um I have a question for you yeah go ahead what is it how would you describe the work that you do what what is it in your words who I mean the world calls it coaching you know so that’s what if you need to explain it to somebody that’s the way I would explain it is my dad’s a whatever an executive coach um but the work the way I would describe the work is on an intellectual level we’re teaching people to be kind to themselves with you know have a relationship with the voice in their head that is gentle and kind and eventually just dissipates on the emotional level the work that I do is all about emotional fluidity it’s about allowing people to fall in love with all of their emotions and and find the genius in all of their emotional experiences and not to avoid them and then on a nervous system level it’s all about helping people feel safe and loved so that I mean that’s a short yeah thanks I appreciate hearing how you describe it because I never know exactly what to say when people ask yeah neither do I I remember one time we were I was at some uh conference and um I was with a friend who does similar work and somebody everybody asked you know what do you do at these conferences and his response was I help people how to I help people die in peace that’s one way of putting it yeah um okay so I grew up around this work and yeah you did yeah yeah and around a lot of people going through big emotions and stuff like that yeah and yeah I was wondering what what was it like to raise a kid in that environment it’s a very welcoming open environment and raising kids is not it’s not easy so how was it to have that Community surrounding you well You Raise Me it made it easier I mean the the last part of your question about how was it to have a community around you it was you know there’s a when you do this kind of work on yourself there’s just more love and peace and joy and freedom and so we’ve been really fortunate because since that’s how we are that’s what we attract and so there’s most of the people who spend time in the house that you got to hear work do the work either doing work with us or vice versa you know they’re just loving caring playful fun joyful individuals so I think on that level it was just amazing and I think there’s also something that you’re asking me which is I would say I would reverse it which is I would say raising you was um I’m gonna get I’m gonna have emotions I can feel myself while I end up raising you was like the work meaning like there is a way in which all the work that we’ve done up until you were born was you know it was like it was I I don’t want to say in the head because it wasn’t but it was it wasn’t practical it wasn’t real world it wasn’t you know you could fool yourself you could sit on a meditation pillow and fool yourself but if you’re raising a kid you can’t fool yourself like if you get all frustrated at an infant you know so the main thing I would say is that for me you were you and your sister were one of the greatest teachers that I’ve ever had and and and I I luckily we found things like hand-in-hand parenting and simplicity and parenting which helped us you know help guide us but for me that was you know the most important work that I ever did was was Raising you from from my own freedom for my own Joy feel your own Joy yeah yeah you can’t you can’t fool yourself when you have two two kids as results you can’t pull yourself like if you’re frustrated with your kid you know or if you’re you know you you were born with colic and you would just yell for like four or five hours every night it was brutal right like you can pretend you’re at peace you can pretend you’re awake you know but yeah yeah how patient are you really yeah exactly um but I would say but to answer your question directly what was it like I mean it was interesting there was definitely moments like I remember you were seven years old I think maybe eight there’s somebody on the couch doing the work with Mom or I and um and you would do things like yell from the other room just let it in or stop being defensive stop resisting you would like because you’d I’m pretty confident you can tell me you would like listen at the door and you would want to know about these conversations I was listening to the whole oh listen to the whole thing yeah yeah and occasionally you can help yourself you just like yell at the person which was always disarming his heck for the person who was like oh wow the the nine-year-old in the other room gets it and I’m pretending I don’t you know that was so so that part was really cool that was part was really cool and also it was really cool to see the other thing that’s been really interesting is to watch you like you’re 16 now and on one level 17. oh sorry you’re 17 now and uh and uh and you’re and your um and you’re very 17 in many many ways and then there’s another way where you’re very not 17 right where where there’s a some there’s some ways in which you have an emotional understanding or an understanding of the voice in your head that is I know tons and tons of adults that don’t have it and so that’s been really interesting too because it’s like on one level you’ve I’ve watched you mature differently than other you know folks in your community and I’ve seen both the stress of that and the the on you and also the joy of that for you so that’s been an interesting thing to to know to know that we were raising you so different from society that there is going to be challenges for you as you grew up and still choosing to do that yeah yeah to it you know being brought up differently than other kids and being brought up with an emotional understanding that isn’t common in society have you seen that impact the way I navigate the world emotionally especially as a teenager yeah yeah so I mean I’ll tell you a couple early stories and then I’ll see the teenage story so the the early stories were things like you know you were really interested in doing a silent Retreat when you were nine you know because you knew about my meditation and everything and as you know we looked all over to find somebody who would let you do a silent retreat with me and we luckily you know we had friends in Tennessee who ran a retreat center so we did a silent Retreat there and one one cute story that I want to tell is like at the end of it I was like I was like hey so what was your favorite part it was like three and a half days right of silence and and you said I think it was Asylum no it was the fact that you couldn’t tell me what to do for three and a half days I remember that actually I ate so much banana bread so much banana oh you did yeah and the other thing is at the end of it you know you said oh Dad I know what a metaphor is now which is interesting because cognitively you weren’t supposed to know what a metaphor was it whatever it was nine years old like it’s not something that you’re brain is supposed to get yet as far as development and so but the reason I tell that story is because when you came home it was like I don’t know two or three weeks later you said um I don’t want to do meditation anymore it’s making me too different from my friends and so remember when that happened yeah what was that what was it yeah what was the event that triggered that um I remember being in school and my teacher who had known that I went because I missed school for it I believe she asked me she said how was the silent Meditation Retreat and I got made fun of by all of my friends yeah and I wanted I was interested in having a conversation about how I felt with my teacher after The Meditation Retreat but I didn’t feel safe enough in that environment to share because I thought I would be bullied for for having that experience oh that’s fascinating right right I somehow thought it was like that you were seeing that you saw the world too differently I didn’t know it was about being bullied um well I would have treated it differently well I think it was about being bullied and also because I mean growing up whenever there’s a conflict between two two kids in school I was always the mediator the teacher would bring me in and I would mediate because we always got through conflict way quicker yeah and I think I I think I realized that being the mediator it was fun and it was interesting to watch people you know work through conflicts and everything but it was making me feel like separated from my class because yeah you know being around that type of work it’s hard to understand if you weren’t raised that way yeah I mean that I remember that was the Second Story I was going to tell from your childhood was that that was the moment that you were like you really like doing that work for a very short period of time and then you were like no I don’t like it it creates too much separation between me and the other kids and and and I remember us supporting you like yeah just tell the teacher you don’t want to do that don’t don’t do that anymore like be a kid and yeah and so that was it so those moments those were like the tough moments the the non-tough moments are like right now you and I are doing a podcast you haven’t you know I don’t think I’ve ever done a podcast before recorded yourself before you you know I gave you a couple pointers you figured out the technology here you are doing it and you’re not self-conscious you and I are just sitting here having a conversation and so that’s the positive stuff right the positive stuff is that you’re very self-possessed you’re incredibly confident you um have a high standard for who your friends are you have a high standard for any kind of love interest you are incredibly open and honest with me about everything that you um do or I would assume not everything but I mean more than most things honestly yeah right and and we have like very for the right conversations and I I just enjoy your company and I’m not worried about you doing in things that are going to get you in trouble or where I’d have to worry about you I feel just very confident in Your Capacity overall and it feels like now that you’re a teenager the only really the only pointers I’m giving you our kind of adult skills right the only feel like the only thing I feel like my job left to do is to teach you like okay here’s a here’s how you get a really big project done here’s how you deal with you know people dismissing you here’s how you deal with you know social politics Etc like just and we get to talk about adult lessons and that besides that it’s just like a lot of love and connection and so now it feels really great and I still think that you know Finding you’ll find great people but you’re not going to have the capacity I think the older you get the the more Persnickety you’re gonna be around the quality of folks that you surround yourself by I think you’ll still respect and love people but I think it’s going to get more picky for you about who you actually want to spend time with yeah that’s the thing that’s a little hard on my heart is that there’s not a community of people who are raised like you who can you know be with you in that way it is sometimes a little bit lonely to yeah not feel like I’m being met on the same level of connection that I want to meet people with yeah okay there’s some people though who I found which is really nice they can meet me on that level I’m I’m the most important too I’ll I’ll tell you a funny story I was finishing groundbreakers last time and you know sometimes you say something where like it just it just like lays flat in the room and uh right they’re usually my favorite things that I’ve said and uh but there’s a group of people and somebody somebody asked why do you do this and I said I do this because through groundbreakers there’s a there we’re creating an environment where a whole bunch of people can accept all the love that I want to give that there’s truth to that there’s also truth to like I have a I take a great pleasure in helping folks lead the life that they want to lead um but it it was like to some degree even I think your mom and I do this work so that we can create an environment where there’s that much love and openness that creates a community around us with that much love and openness I mean it created a community around me we have Mina Lee and so many others who I don’t think we’d ever be in connection with if it wasn’t for the work it really it’s allowed us to find really amazing beautiful people it’s true yeah we’re really really blessed that way thank you Dad I I do have one more actually that I’m really curious to know the answer to yeah I I’m wondering that how you see me navigate difficult situations especially emotional situations with the knowledge of or just like being raised around people who are okay diving into really uncomfortable emotional situations and talking through them and working through them instead of building up those emotions and getting resentful and stuff like that how have you seen navigate difficult situations with that prior knowledge yeah I I would say in 90 of all things I see you navigate it without trying you know I I see you um interact with whatever social politics or gamesmanship that’s happening or with teachers especially with adults especially you I seem to just be able to meet them where they are and to stay in yourself and allow the emotions to be smooth I mean just the other night I remember you were having a hard time and I was saying something to to comfort you I think and maybe make you feel better I was definitely on that edge where we we don’t particularly like going and you were looked at me and you’re like Dad I just need to be sad you don’t need to take care of that and it was like wow you know like that’s your level of understanding I remember also like the first time you broke up with a boyfriend you know when you came to the car where I was picking you up and you held my hand and you were crying and you said dad you always taught me that heartbreak helps your capacity or helps you helps you love the allowing heartbreak helps you love but you never told me it could feel so good and there’s moments like that where it’s just like I mean I feel so grateful and dumbfounded by your capacity where I see you still struggle with kind of with that emotional not emotional fluidity is where you don’t feel capable where some adult tries to make you small in a project that you care about or um there’s a class where you have a teacher who doesn’t know how to meet you and you start feeling like you’re not capable of the class instead of feeling like oh the teacher isn’t capable of teaching me the way I need to be taught and and you start to get hard on yourself like you don’t want to find out that you might fail or there or like you don’t want to have to confront this aspect of you that’s like not capable or feels helpless or something so there’s something there and it’s and it’s the only place I see you it’s the only place I see you kind of shy away from a difficult emotional experience and but in all other places I see and I think it’s totally natural so there’s no criticism in that but in any other way that I see you um I just see you lean right into the difficult emotion with friends and and with family with friends around the table and and I see that you laugh a tremendous amount like there’s so much joy and laughter in you and to me that’s like the that biggest sign you know I have that quote that Joy is the matriarch of a family of emotions and she won’t come into a house where her children aren’t welcome and so when I see the level of joy that you get to that you bring into life not fake niceness not fake happiness but just like natural easeful Joy that’s really the sign and I see that as long as you’re getting some exercise and eating pretty well I just see that I just see that as like your it’s like your natural most most authentic state so that’s that’s really cool to see that I feel so seen by you right now uh I really like seeing you it is so you’re ungrateful to be seen by my dad you know yeah I’m so grateful for our relationship I yeah I am crying yes I I can’t even begin to tell you yeah yeah I love you deeply and I remember when I was I remember when you were young and I was not so you know Mom was amazing with you when you were younger and I was definitely not capable and um she was teaching me and we were learning and but she she somehow knew where we were supposed to go and I was somehow didn’t take long for me to let her lead us and um but I remember you know the older folks folks my age now would be like ah you’re gonna hate it when they leave and I’d be like what are you talking about I mean just get me a good night’s sleep I’m like what are you saying and now I’m just like why it it is I think it’ll be the biggest heartbreak of my life you you and your sister leaving the house you know I I just so enjoy your company and obviously it has to happen it’s just it’s just gonna be there’s going to be a lot of crime in our house when you guys go yeah I don’t know what I’m gonna do I’m gonna have to call you up and be like Dad I have this I have this thing I need to process I hope so I hope I’m not lucky awesome all right dear thank you for coming out okay is that it yeah I think that covers it yeah thank you so much for coming on of course thanks for listening to the art of accomplishment if you enjoyed what you heard today please subscribe and rate US on your podcast app we’d love your feedback so feel free to send us questions or comments you can reach out to us join our newsletter or check out our courses at Art of accomplishment.com