Summary
Joe describes his personal journey from being unable to apologize to discovering the transformative power of shame-free, upright apologies. As a child, apologies were forced — “say you’re sorry” — which taught him that apology equals shame. A therapist challenged him by asking “what does fault have to do with an apology?” which cracked open a new understanding.
The key distinction is between shame-based apologies (making yourself small, promising never to do it again) and upright apologies (standing in your agency, stating “this isn’t how I want to be with you”). Shame-based apologies actually perpetuate the behavior — Joe notes that whenever he sees a groveling apology, he knows the behavior will repeat. Upright apologies reduce the likelihood of repeating the behavior because they come from genuine alignment rather than self-punishment. He also describes a second type of apology — empathic acknowledgment (“I’m sorry you had a hard day”) — which expresses presence without taking responsibility for fixing things.
Key Concepts
- An upright apology actually changes behavior
- Shame stagnates the behavior it punishes
- Empathic acknowledgment is presence, not fixing
Key Quotes
“What does fault have to do with an apology?”
“This is genuinely what I don’t want to do. I don’t want to yell at you like this. I’m very sorry for doing that. That’s not how I want to be with you.”
“Whenever I see an apology like that — ‘I’m sorry, it wasn’t me, I’m not going to do it’ — where they feel so ashamed, you know that shit’s going to happen again.”
“I look forward to, I can’t wait to find a place where I can apologize because I know how transformative that apology is for me.”
Transcript
you know that classic sitcom moment where like there’s like the tough guy and he’s trying to say I’m sorry and he’s like I’m um you know like that moment like I was that guy I would like the idea of apology was absolutely something that I was never going to do unless it was like one of the most hardcore cases and I remember a therapist that we were seeing was like oh no like apologies should be all the time like Sam sorry like literally I’m I’m sorry that you didn’t understand what I was saying to you like I was like wait but that’s not my fault and she’s like what does Fault have to do with an apology and I remember like what the what like I remember that and where what how it finally landed with me was that I thought apologies were just something that was there to make you feel ashamed right cuz as a kid what I got taught was say you’re sorry right it was it wasn’t like there was an authentic apology coming out of my system it was you’re supposed to say you’re sorry whenever you do something that I don’t like like basically you it’s like that’s someplace you should be ashamed so you should say sorry and so I had to learn all over again especially in fights I had to learn how to apologize in an upright way not in a shame way because at this point in my journey I realized that like anytime I felt shame it was a stagnant emotion right which is why fights stagnate the shame is keeping that pattern in place over and over again and so I was like I’m not doing shame and for me to realize like oh there’s such a thing as a shame-free apology and I think yeah I think we have a podcast on shame free apologies if you ever want to listen to it because it you can go deep on this but the idea is that when you do an apology it’s an upright apology meaning you’re not making yourself small you’re not making yourself ashamed and you’re doing it in such a way that you’re saying oh this is genuinely what I don’t want to do I don’t want to treat I don’t want to yell at you like this I don’t want to guiltrip you I don’t want to threaten you or whatever it’s like and so I’m very sorry for doing that that’s not how I want to be with you that is what instead of like I’m yeah I’m sorry that I I did that thing and I I won’t do it again like that’s like a very demeaning thing and it also is going to make it’s going to be shameful and so you’re going to repeat it whenever I see apology like that I’m like that behavior is happening again right and you see it all the time like in the abusive relationships I’m sorry it wasn’t me I’m not going to do it like they feel so ashamed you know that shit’s going to happen again and the reverse of the apology is really cool too was that if you make an upright apology and you say hey I’m sorry for doing this this isn’t how I want to be with you it reduces the chances of that behavior happening again it’s an amazing thing it’s like one of the the most powerful tools I know for changing behavior is to apologize in an upright way for the behavior that you’ve done so apologies are this great way to heal from a fight it’s a great way to say this behavior isn’t going to happen as much or at all anymore but it’s also a a great way to respect somebody else to say like hey I respect you enough to say and to hold myself into account without shame now there’s another kind of apology that there’s a lot lot of therapists that really like this we experimented with it for a while Tara and I I do like it we don’t use it as much anymore but it was really useful for a while which is the apology of hey I’m I’m sorry that you’re feeling disconnected right now or I’m sorry that you’ve had a hard day or I’m sorry and it’s not a sorry like I’m responsible sorry but it’s saying hey I acknowledge you’re having a bad day it’s not what I want for you hey the car went and I’m sorry that’s not what I want for you like it’s just saying hey I’m I’m right here with you and it’s such a sweet thing to do it’s like such a sweetness of saying like I acknowledge that that kind of sucked and I’m right here with you and so it allows the relationship to show that it’s like I’m with you and I also acknowledge that that’s yours it’s not for me to take care of I can just be here with you in it instead of like come in and try to fix the whole thing and then disempower you and so both of those apologies are really nice use them for as much as you want but that upright apology like I will I look forward to I can’t wait to find a place where I can apologize because I know how transformative that apology is for me and how healing that apology can be but it just can’t have that shame if it has the shame it’s just going to stagnate that pattern in place so it’s always in this very upright place where you’re like taking into account and you’re being completely in your own agency when it comes to apologies