Summary
In this coaching session from a public Q&A, Joe Hudson works with a man who runs ultramarathons and finds himself in an internal war about whether to be in a relationship. The man says he loves love but keeps telling himself relationships are “too much work” and will take away from his other pursuits.
Joe quickly identifies that the man treats relationships like ultramarathons — tests of endurance and pain — rather than as something supportive. Through inquiry, they discover the core issue isn’t about relationships at all but about self-abandonment: the man habitually bends to what others want, then gets resentful, and ignores his own genuine desires. When the man drops into non-abandonment of himself during the session, he finds the question about whether to be in a relationship simply dissolves — there’s nothing to decide when you’re present with yourself.
Key Concepts
Key Quotes
“So you treat relationships like an ultramarathon — a test of endurance. I would avoid the shit out of that.”
“If you knew that you could create a relationship that was not endurance, that was supportive, would there be a question? No.”
“How do you abandon yourself? I tend to bend to what she wants and then get pissed about it.”
“What happens to the next relationship you’re in if you don’t abandon yourself? It’s definitely supportive.”
“You have this endurance mentality which can actually make transformation quite challenging because there’s a feeling of like, oh, I have to endure this pain, which is a different thing than transforming the pain.”
Transcript
I tend to do things to extremes like I run ultramarathons, so that’s kind of how I do most things. “So you treat relationships like an ultramarathon — a test of endurance.” “I would avoid the shit out of that.” “Yeah, yeah, yeah.” In this coaching session that happened during one of our public Q&As, a man shows up with a war inside of himself about whether to be in a relationship or not be in a relationship, and he ends up discovering the thing that’s holding him back in all of his relationships, including the relationship with himself. “I have an interesting story around relationship currently, and I’ve heard myself often say like it’s too much work, I don’t want to get back into a relationship, I don’t have time. So there’s like almost like a push-pull — like I want to, but then I hear myself say these things and how it’s going to take away from the other things I want to do.” “What’s the thing that says you want to? What does that sound like?” “Well this one is I don’t have time, like I won’t get to do the things I want to do.” “What’s the for sound like? What is the for?” “The for — like, for it, sounds like: yeah, I love love. Like I love relationship, I love spending my life and sharing experience with a person and people.” “So what’s the hurt you’re trying to avoid, if any?” “So I think, you know, I was married for 10 years, divorced, then I was single for three, in a relationship for three, and then single for the last year. So in this last year that’s where this dialogue is coming up of like, you know, it’s a lot of work, I don’t want to do it. Like am I going to be able to do that and business and train for sport and like do all that stuff, like is that going to work together?” “So how long do you think this will last? If you just were like, fuck it, this is what it is. Do you think in two years you’re still going to be like yeah, fuck the relationship? And then like 10 years?” “Possibly. I mean, I don’t know, is the answer to that.” “If you had to guess — there’s a little Cheshire Cat grin happened when I asked that question.” “So yeah, I mean, I am a creature of habit, so it’s like, you know, that’s just kind of the way. And I tend to do things to extremes like I run ultramarathons, so that’s kind of how I do most things.” “Right. So the last time I was single it happened for three years and then it just — so you treat relationships like an ultramarathon, a test of endurance.” “I would avoid the shit out of that.” “Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.” “So how do you want to treat relationships?” “I want it to be supportive. I want to, you know, I guess like in the not sense — like I want to not treat it like a burden. Or like an obligation.” “Yeah. Or like something that equals enduring pain. Like a race.” “Yeah, yeah.” “Well I have a weird question for you. What makes you want to have endurance for ultramarathoning but not for relationships? Like you chose a sport that’s like — what is the sport that I would have to endure the most?” “Actually got into it, you know, right at the tail end of my divorce. And so it was the thing for me that was like, I got to spend time alone out in nature on the trail, just no headphones, no music, just me and my thoughts. Let the dust settle. It’s just kind of like the place where I go to work shit out.” “Okay, I got it. So if you knew that you could create a relationship that was not endurance, that was supportive, would there be a question?” “No.” “How much — okay, great. No. So then what makes it that your mind is thinking about do I want to be in a relationship and not want to be in a relationship, instead of how do I create a relationship that’s not an act of endurance, that’s supportive?” “Yeah. So the kind of the missing piece of this conversation too is that like, dealing with my ex — I have a 14-year-old daughter and she lives with my ex — and dealing with my ex is not a pleasant experience. So like that whole equation is like relationship equals pain, frustration, fighting, people not listening.” “So you’re still fighting with your ex?” “I wouldn’t necessarily say fighting, but it’s like, you know, we went through attorneys, we have legal agreements and stuff, and the challenge is even though that’s spelled out on paper to a T, there’s still the expectation and the disproportionate reaction to me even going the extra mile — pun intended, I guess.” “So in your relationship with your ex, how do you abandon yourself?” “I tend to bend to what she wants and then get pissed about it.” “Okay, awesome. And with the relationship with the voice in your head about you should be but you shouldn’t be in a relationship, but you should be or you shouldn’t be in a relationship — how do you abandon yourself?” “I just kind of look at it like, yeah, okay. Like I just don’t even entertain it. It’s just a thing that happens on the side.” “And how is that abandonment? How is that self-abandonment?” “I mean, it’s kind of just like ignoring something I want. It’s like abandoning a genuine desire that I’m writing off as all the things I said previously.” “Right. Yeah. So is this an issue about relationships, or how much of this is just an issue about learning to abandon yourself?” “Yeah.” “What happens to the next relationship you’re in if you don’t abandon yourself?” “It’s definitely supportive.” “Yeah. So right now in this moment, you’re abandoning yourself less than you did at the beginning of the call. Like, I see you here with me in a different way than at the beginning of the call. That means any moment in life there’s kind of a spectrum of abandonment, right? Self — how abandoned am I going to be with myself or not be with myself?” “So what if that just becomes the —” “Yeah, yeah.” “So like, what would you say is the opposite of not abandoning myself?” “You just did it.” “I just abandoned myself.” “Yeah, more.” “Okay. There you are. So ask the question from that space. From the non-abandonment space. If there even is a question to ask.” “I can’t even ask the question without going to that same place. It’s fascinating.” “That’s right. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.” “Okay, that’s helpful.” “Yeah. So you have this endurance mentality which can actually make transformation quite challenging because there’s a feeling of like, oh, I have to endure this pain, which is like a different thing than transforming the pain. Right? So there’s a bit of that. And you’ve been — I’m sure you endured your wife for an extended period of time before you got the divorce.” “Yeah.” “So if you’re going to use that mentality, use it. I am going to do what I do for 150 miles on the trail with what you just did here with me for the last minute. Which is — yes. And you’re doing it right now. You’ve got it.” “Yeah, it’s a very tangible feeling. Like I feel what I feel it.” “Yeah, and you know it because of your running. Because I know you hit the state in your running.” “Yeah.” “And so the thing is, you don’t need to be on the trail to be there. You can just — this. And that’s the job. And don’t — what your mind’s going to do its chatter, just like it does when you’re on the trail. You’re like, the mind is like, okay, man, this sucks, you should give up. You’re like, boom, put you aside, I’m here. And that’s your job.” “Love that. Sweet. Beautiful. Thank you.” “Pleasure.”