Summary
Joe Hudson and Brett Kistler explore the relationship between stories (the idea structures we place around experience) and emotions, and how they interact in the process of transformation. Joe defines “story” broadly — every thought, every sentence, every identity is a story. No thought is 100% true or 100% false. Stories can both deepen and separate us from experience, and the stronger we hold a story, the more it tends to keep emotions stuck.
The episode reveals a bidirectional relationship: deconstructing stories can free emotions to move, and moving emotions can dissolve stories and create new clarity. Joe shares a personal example of driving past a house that triggered him daily — by stopping to fully feel the emotions each time, his story shifted from “these people are assholes” to seeing their full humanity. He also shares discovering the roots of his anger at superficial conversations, tracing it back to being the child who pointed out the elephant in an alcoholic household.
A key insight is that grief and emotional processing move faster without story. Joe observed this after his teacher Case’s death — those with the strongest stories about the loss had the longest grief cycles. The episode points to a developmental arc where stories become increasingly transparent and diffuse, eventually dissolving into direct experience. Joe notes he went through a period of about 18 months where he couldn’t tell stories at all, before coming to appreciate them as what makes us human.
Key Concepts
- Stories and emotions are bidirectional — each shapes the other
- The stronger the story, the slower emotions move
- Emotions move fastest without story
- Moving emotions dissolves stories and creates clarity
- No thought is 100% true or 100% false
- Story dissolution is progress, not a problem
- Depersonalization and awakening share nearly identical descriptions
Key Quotes
“Any idea that you have — the idea that you put around a situation — that’s a story. It’s not that they’re true or not true. It’s literally the idea structure that you put around whatever it is that you’re experiencing.”
“I can’t find any thought that I have that’s 100% true and I can’t find any thought that I have that’s 100% false.”
“The stronger the story, the longer the grief cycle took for them.”
“I cry weekly usually, get angry regularly, and almost all the time I don’t know why. I don’t have a reason. I don’t have a story. It’s just the emotional experience moving.”
“If you look at the readings of monks who have woken up and you read their stories, and then you go online and read the stories of depersonalization disorder, about 70% of the stories are almost identical.”
Transcript
themselves to really move some anger can immediately create Clarity in their world or allowing someone to feel like a deep well of sadness can immediately change their stories about somebody who’s died Etc so that’s how that works that’s how that part of it works is if you allow the emotions to move your your stories change period every time welcome to the art of accomplishment where we explore how deepening connection with ourselves and others leads to creating the life we want with enjoyment and ease I’m Brett Kistler here today with my co-host Joe Hudson all right good morning Joe how are you I’m good I’m good we just uh had a connection course session at the end they we did this cohort thing and so I got to do some hot seat coaching with some people it was really fun it was really fun all right so yeah anything interesting come up from that yeah actually the thing that we’re going to talk about today was present in it and the fact that there was um well a lot of what I do when I’m outside coaching is to see through people’s stories and or limiting beliefs and and to see how the emotional component interacts with that um with that story and so it I was noticing it a lot because I knew that’s we were going to talk about and so it was really cool and very present for me you’re talking about see through the story we’ve recently done an episode on limiting beliefs yeah how does story and emotions link together in in the way that you’re envisioning talking about right now this story is kind of a it’s used often in our work but the there’s a good question about what it is and I would just describe story meaning like any idea that you have like the idea that you put around a situation so I’m outside and am in nature and I’m like oh this is enjoyable that’s a story that it’s enjoyable or nature is beautiful that’s a story or wow I wish they hadn’t cut down all these trees that’s a story or mankind is destroying the environment that’s a story it’s not that they’re true or not true it’s not about that it’s just it’s literally the idea structure that you put around whatever it is that you’re what you’re experiencing and to some degree it separates you from the experience and in some level it informed your experience and it it can actually make the experience richer I’m thinking about how this might interact with emotions is there’s some emotion that comes up in us it’s like wow I’m angry that’s a story correct but also you could use the recognition oh I’m angry that’s a story but that story might point to there might be something to feel underneath this that reminds me of a great I remember so when I was like learning to have emotional experiences because I was very cut off from my emotions in in my 20s and I learned that if I could name the emotion I was having like I’m angry it would help me feel it and then it was some years later I was with a friend and I was like wow I’m really sad and he’s like no you’re telling me you’re sad as a way to not feel it and he was like dead on and I I recognized I was like oh crap like the story can do both and it does do both at different times especially different times of development so yeah this story is just the idea structure that you put around an experience that’s that’s what it means yeah okay yeah so I’m going back to a couple examples that you just mentioned um looking out the window right now at my at some trees in nature and I’m like okay this walking around in nature wow this is beautiful that being a story Separates Me from just experiencing fully the nature fully letting the sensory experience in because it’s getting funneled into this story yes and no in the fact that I would say the more you believe the thought to be true the more that you it separates you there’s ways in which a thought can actually bring you more deeply into connection with yourself as well the thought can do either the thought can make you either either more or less connected what I have noticed is that in deep emotional experiences the stronger the story The more stuck the emotional experience typically right and in more of a personal development context this might be I’m angry because my parents did this to me back then and now I’m all messed up for whatever reason and now I just keep living in this pattern and this pattern is something I just can’t get out of and it defines me now and I feel so angry and frustrated and disappointed and sad and bereft at all of this but those feelings are like to the extent that you buy that story and hold it to be true those feelings can only circle around inside the story and it might be very necessary for somebody at some point in their development in some part of their their Journey on this in this is that is to be able to say that right so for instance I work with a lot of people who like my parents were perfect that’s the first thing they’ll say is my parents were perfect and usually if they’re coming to me and they’re saying that there’s going to be a moment where it’s really important to them for them to say no my parents my parents had issues they get that story needs to change and they need to say it out loud and believe that story for things to be able to move and they also have to let go of that story that my parents were you had screwed up in some way to also continue moving through it so all the stories are very necessary and they definitely interact deeply with the emotional experience and to some degree almost the same thing in a way yeah yeah so it sounds like there’s maybe even like a hopscotching from story to story on the journey until eventually like the stories become more and more diffuse and further and further apart and eventually you just land in the full experience of yourself with all of its complexity and stories come up maybe as a something that’s useful in the moment you know a thought is a story yes that’s right you know every every sentence that I say is a story in some sense but it’s partially true partially false not my entire thought process not my entire being yeah that’s exactly right yeah there is no thought that I can’t find any thought that I have that’s 100 true and I can’t find any thought that I have that’s 100 false and and I’d say the same thing with my identity and the same thing with everything is that Thoughts by their nature are are limited and they cannot describe reality it’s like I couldn’t I could not paint an accurate portrait of the world with one color and I cannot describe the world accurately with only one function being intellect I also to be able to have a full experience to describe a full experience of something I need something besides the intellect as well so how do we see through stories when we start to identify the stories that we’re in identify things that we might not have previously identified as stories such as for some listeners it might be surprising to think oh those trees are beautiful is a story that Separates Me from them what or all of your thoughts are a story that you don’t have to look you don’t have to figure out like unlike a limiting belief which is like a story that’s actually limiting you every single thought you have is a story there is none that isn’t yeah or even the the story that humanity is destroying nature could be the story that is making you feel constriction and blame which separates you from the Heartbreak and thus the personal responsibility of being a part of this yeah more ass of humanity you’re right yeah or you could tell the story humanity is taming nature you could tell the story that humanity is destroying nature you could tell the story that nature humans are part of Nature and we’re like the forest fire which helps reseed the forest or there’s like infinite stories you can tell about the situation and there’s beautiful truth to all of them and there’s a lack of truth to all of them yeah I have a favorite story there where humans are something that trees sent to go dig oil back up from the ground and put carbon back in the air for them yeah yeah I’ve heard the same thing yeah it’s mind-breaking I think car George Carlin had something where he’s like the Earth invented humans to make plastic yeah so right so there’s a thousand stories that you can tell around it and the thing about them is that you know we have an emotional experience all the time we have stories that are just like about nature and we have stories about ourselves we call the stories about ourselves and identity and all of them will have an emotional component to them and some of them are you know somewhat benign emotional components and some of them are not like my dad loves me my dad hates me my dad’s critical of me often say would have a much deeper emotional component you have the thought or you identify in in a specific way like I am a lazy or I’m no good or I’m worthless it’s going to come with an emotional component to it and so they’re they’re deeply tied together that our belief systems and our identity belief systems about our identity all have a lot of um you know they have like an emotional correlation yeah that’s almost a way that the story comes up as a description of the emotion we have we have the emotional experience and then we try to understand it and come up with a story and then the story is something that we want to be something that’s internally consistent that we can then use to predict and act upon yeah never is internally it’s never consistent yeah yeah there’s this attempt to make it somewhat logically consistent and that’s that’s the intellect coming in yes that’s right but then you can also use those stories as a as a path down to what the actual fully fluid emotional movement underneath it is what is trying to happen there and in my experience is that that using the stories to do that eventually means taking the stories all apart with other stories it’s like it’s it’s deconstruction and then the emotions move most fluidly when there’s no story you know if you look at animals their emotions move very fluidly and there’s you know less stories yeah so it sounds like something you’re you’re pointing to here is that there’s always emotions if there’s a story there’s emotions behind it because stories are constructed of emotion and there’s not always a story with emotions it’s possible to move an emotion correct the other thing that happens is we can tell ourselves new stories that change our emotions which is a really interesting thing right like if if I listen to somebody talking on a podcast and I see myself differently because of that then that new identity will have a new emotional and so maybe I feel relief because I’m like oh wow I I see myself differently I I don’t have to be constrained by that anymore so what’s interesting is like can I give you look at this as far as like non-dual teachers or a lot of spiritual teachers they’re just sitting there telling stories but they’re telling stories that change the emotional component of people the emotional components of people so it’s interesting like they they do interact in this there’s a dance it’s it’s not so much causal as it’s one or the other and and one’s not greater than the other and they’re just they they do interact so tell me more a little bit more about the way that they interact and what makes that really important for this work and for this journey there’s the intellect and the emotional way so if you you can deconstruct all of your this is the way I did because I was very head based I just deconstructed all the stories until I couldn’t believe any stories anymore um which allowed for a lot greater emotional fluidity and then I found out it works in Reverse two meaning that like if I’m really stuck on something I’m like yeah and my head’s like doing that thing that most people’s heads do which is cycling over the problem over and over again what did I do how do I fix it what did I do how do I fix it I can’t believe I did that you know that kind of thing you can release an emotion and then boom the story gets clarified like you can see things differently and you’ve seen this all the time where somebody has a big anger release or sadness release and all of a sudden they feel so much more clear about a problem that they were having and oftentimes when I’m working with people I try to work on both both the emotional and the and the intellectual the story side of it we have attempted to give an emotional um developmental model in one of our podcasts but most of the developmental models that are cognitive they talk about um getting to a place where you can’t believe your own story where you’re using stories that are useful for you not stories because you believe them and so those are the ways intellectually or emotionally to see through the stories to see that they’re not true if you so how do they interact it’s like um like you said I think you said it perfectly the there’s always an emotional experience happening as long as you’re awake there’s an emotional I would assume when you’re asleep but when you’re awake there’s always an emotional experience happening and sometimes there’s story happening and sometimes you’re in a space of no thought right and there’s no story happening but the emotions are still occurring yeah I think a lot of people are not very familiar with that place of not having thought um or at least maybe they don’t recognize that they are there’s there’s times but a lot of us really identify with always thinking and the first time we have have that kind of experience where thought drops and we’re just in the emotional experience it’s very disorienting because without a story there’s what do I know about myself what do I know about the world right now what do I have to is everything going to fall apart is it am I just gonna dissolve into a puff of smoke right now what’s going on and and yet we have experiences of it that people don’t even know they’re having like you in a wingsuit I’m sure you had moments of full non-thought right it’s just like president that was one of the draws yeah exactly right yeah it was like this is the moment that I’m not thinking about my taxes or the laundry or whatever I did wrong last week yeah it’s just presence with my environment and myself and my body is doing the flying yeah or or for some people it’s like they look at a Vista and have this moment maybe it’s five seconds or something where they just like you know and so when you’re awestruck yeah we have them awestruck is a way that it happens and you’re like hey where’d you go I just spaced out you know like that we have them um but what’s interesting is because we’re not thinking during those times we the the mind that is thinking has a hard time identifying them I asked my daughter when she was like nine years old I said um hey have you ever had that moment when you’re looking out behind your eyes and you know that there’s something greater than you looking out behind your eyes like it’s like it’s vastness and she’s like oh yeah all the time it’s like I was like really I was so I was so surprised you know and so I think it’s something that’s very natural that we lose track of or we get you know into our neurotic thoughts into our churnum and we forget that it’s happening or that it’s there it’s possible yeah I recall sometimes when I was younger having sort of like a a stare and I would just kind of zone out and my Consciousness would mix with this space and I would just kind of be this not identity and then I’d pop out of it for some reason somebody would say my name and I should be like okay I just zoned out and I even had like a story that developed around it of like okay I’m a little bit of a space cadet and then you know I get into doing like meditation Retreats and things and it’s like oh wow all this work to get back to something that eventually just feels like that place exactly that’s right that’s right right and that’s the interesting thing the story gets so thick that even when you talk about people who have had what they would call Awakening experiences which I’ll just I’d say it’s your a shift of identity meaning that when you’re a little kid you’re like you say to a little kid like hey what does Mom want for Christmas and I want GI Joe with a Kung Fu grip what does dad want Dad wants to GI Joe with the Kung Fu Grip you know like because you see the world as you are the world in this like very personal way and as you get older you can see it differently you can see that I am different than my mom and I’m different than my dad and then when the identity shifts to the universal that’s what let’s just call that Awakening for whatever purpose right and what happens is that there are people out there who have that shift of identity and then they have a story that’s this is bad I don’t like this and then there’s another group of people where they’re like I’ve been working for this for like 20 years and finally I got it this is like a huge relief so even that has a story to it right where and and so if you look at um the readings of monks who have woken up and have this like great sense of freedom and you just and you read their and then you go online and you read the stories of depersonalization disorder about 70 of the stories of depersonalization disorder are almost identical to the monks waking up so it’s amazing it’s an amazing thing right we can even have stories around that yeah something you pointed to there is this idea of like Awakening not being a particular thing that happens once and it’s complete it’s like the the process of growing an identity as a child you have these at these micro identities that come up for just a period of time and then you grow out of them like you do a pair of shoes and the moment of growing out of it is like the moment where you’re in the unknown of what if Mom and Dad don’t want a GI Joe with a Kung Fu Grip what is real yeah and then you sit in that and then it consolidates into a new story and somewhere in there there’s emotions that are moving there’s the there’s a subconscious re-shifting how do emotions then when we move emotions how does that change our story you were alluding to this a little bit earlier yeah so sometimes emotions moving the emotions change the story sometimes moving the emotions help us discover the deeper story like the next level of story that creates some freedom and like I said and lack of story often makes the emotions move much more fluidly if you’re not willing to feel the emotion then there’s a story in there that you haven’t found and so sometimes people can walk around feeling like oh I don’t have a story but they’re not moving emotions that actually seems to be like a a very particular time of development where you see that happen yeah there might be some there might be a subconscious shame that you’re not even logically aware of to the point where you have a story around it but that that makes certain emotions when they start to come up just be somatically suppressed before you realize that they’re there that’s right and to find those emotions you might go through a series of stories you know starting starting in some form of therapy or coaching or something that brings you into contact with what it is in your life that first of all is being affected by this suppression yes there’s going to be some kind of frustration going on or some kind of you know depression or sadness or some disease yeah some dis-ease yeah and then you could you know find your Hopscotch of stories that get down to what the what emotion is not being able to move yeah so I’ll give you like a practical example here so Tara and I uh we’re looking for a place to live this is like kind of during the crash and I didn’t want to buy a house because I knew that the crash was coming and I knew have basically had done the math and it was like 2011 is like when all these short-term loans were coming up so that was going to be the down part of the market and so we rented it took us a long time to find this rental we were about a year from away from where we wanted to buy and we were friends with the neighbors who owned the property and one day the neighbor yelled at our daughter and Tara was like not accepting that and so they kicked us out and every time I drove past this house I just got this kick in the stomach I just got this kick like bam and I would just drive quicker to like just try to push it down try not to feel that experience and one day I was like you know what no no no no no I am going to feel this experience so every time I drove by the house when I felt that kick I would just stop the car and I would feel it and I would invite it and I just like yeah okay I wanna I wanna like milk this thing for everything like I’m not gonna avoid this I’m going to run right into it and it took a little while I can’t remember like two or three weeks because I drove past it every day and then all of a sudden it was like I could drive past that house with nothing but love I had felt through all the pain of it and there was nothing that I was trying to avoid there’s no more resistance to it and in that um the emotion my story changed from these people are assholes who screwed us to I could see their pain I could see their anger I could see I could see all of them it wasn’t just one aspect of them anymore that I was looking at and so that’s how feeling your emotions can change your stories or you know somebody getting allowing themselves to really move some anger can immediately create Clarity in their world or allowing someone to feel like a deep well of sadness can immediately change their stories about somebody who’s died Etc so that’s how that works that’s how that part of it works is yeah I can imagine how this could show up in interpersonal conflict as well if someone has a story and you’re really disagreeing with their story and you’re trying to like deconstructed and fight it and then they’re holding on to the story even tighter than yes they would they’re less likely to move the emotion and come to a deeper story that includes more of both of your shared experience yeah I look at two people are having a conflict it’s like both of them don’t feel seen and both of them don’t feel like they’re understood like so and so they can’t soften they can’t move the emotions if you allow both of them to feel seen and understood then everything can move and change so yeah so a lot of times what people will do is they’ll say oh I shouldn’t have that I shouldn’t think that they’re assholes because they’re trying to avoid the emotion and so they’ll tell themselves they shouldn’t think this they shouldn’t think that you know this story is bad Etc instead of going oh this is a story it is what it is and there’s an emotion let’s feel the emotion or they could have the story of I don’t want this person to have a story about me I don’t like this story that I’m being you know held to and then that’s also a story and that locks your own emotions into place and exactly interacts with the other that’s exactly right yeah yeah so how can you use the emotions to help find the deeper story what is I I say use like their yeah some deep part of us yeah so I the story I have there is that I was in this party once and I was noticing a trend of mine and the trend was that anytime people were having superficial conversations I would just be like pissed that’d just be like like judgmental and shitty like oh yeah so I went shopping and you know I really like the green but the chartreuse was a little bit better and and I’d just be like wanting to throttle them and I was like I was like what is it like what what I like this doesn’t make any sense and it’s been ruling me for you know decades and so I started to really feel into that I would start finding people having what I would at that time would have called child conversations and I would just go and be in it and it got awkward I gotta tell you there’s some awkward moments of like two people talking about shopping and I’m just like tearing up I’m crying you know weeping over this and and so I didn’t know why this was happening but as I felt the emotions all the way through it’s it became clear and the story that became clear was that when I was a kid I was a guy shouting that there’s an elephant in the living room right like I would talk about the Pink Elephant you know we had an alcoholic household and my job in the house was to be like there’s a problem there’s a problem and everybody else’s job in the house was to be like what problem I don’t know what you’re talking about that’s not an issue and to keep it superficial and that’s where the anger actually was the anger was that and once I felt the hurt underneath the anger of like oh of not being seen for all those years and not being respected for the role that I was playing and being made the problem child or whatever it was then there was just tears and so I you know I’m like well I can’t remember exactly how old I was then it was like maybe 35 or something and and I’m just like weeping while people are talking about driving to Santa Barbara it was awkward um but it was great and it and so it just by going into the emotional experience it like it brought out the story that was hidden in there that was that was holding me back and I think that happens a lot especially people who you know have like they they can see through their own identity but their emotions aren’t moving I think that’s often the the trick is to like like really look for everything that’s uncomfortable and dig in and feel all the way will like bring out the subconscious stories about who we are and what we’ve been through yeah it sounds like there’s a sort of a trap or a kind of a Dodge that can occur where you you see a story that you’re in and then you you see through that story but then you see past feeling the emotion and you’re just like oh yeah nothing is real what is Free Will yes yes yes yes yeah that’s what I’m talking about and you can do that and you will still be bothered the next time somebody is videos by the next time that somebody is having that superficial conversation or the next time that somebody cuts you off or whatever it is you can overcome it in the moment you can mentally kind of sidestep it but it doesn’t get you out of the pattern if you want to get out of the pattern you got to feel the emotion all the way through yeah so diving a little bit deeper into this Paradox it’s like the story is the pointer to the emotion but the story also slows down the movement of the emotion if you cling to it yeah so this is something that I I discovered when when case died so a case who I think I’ve mentioned here before he um he he passed during his first silent Retreat I remember at that time one of his close friends said to me that I told you the silence would kill him this guy talked all the time was always with people anyway so he passed and and I you know engineered a situation where his closest friends a lot of people who’ve done deep work with him all sat in a circle and we all just kind of had our had a session together where it was just like hey let’s have this let’s all Express what’s going on for us what I noticed at that point is that this not at that point but over the next months is that the the stronger the story the longer the grief cycle took for them there’s lots of stories right uh he was happy it was a perfect time for him to go or um he died too soon he was only 54 or um you know he was like the light of my life I can’t live without him like the stronger the story The more personal the story was just the slower the grief process was for people and I remember at my time I was like none of those stories existed for me it was interesting because when everybody was kind of doing their thing and when it got to me I like just wailed and got really angry I got really pissed and I couldn’t describe why there didn’t make any sense to be pissed and it just like moved right through me and and like my grief cycle was very short with case and so I’ve just noticed that generally and in fact I had a client the other day saying you just finished um one of the things I’ll do for like my my L10 clients of clients who are Executives is out if they want to do a silent Retreat I will guide them through a silent Retreat and we’ll talk to them for 15 minutes a day and just help them negotiate their experience and um that’s not the right word for it I will help them see what they might be avoiding and then give them a some sort of instruction to put put themselves right in that spot and after this retreat uh this woman was just she was crying and she’s like I don’t know why I’m crying and I was like great and she was disturbed by it and I thought it was wonderful I’m like oh this is great because that means it’s going to move very quickly and like this is great you don’t need to have a reason to have an emotional experience and it will present itself to you most likely afterwards um where she was like wait I’m crying for no reason something must be wrong like what’s wrong with me and so and I’m blocking the emotion for the wait waiting until it’s figured out yes exactly exactly yeah yeah exactly so that’s exactly it became the way to block the emotion and so I cry weekly usually um get angry regularly and almost all the time I don’t know why I don’t have a reason I don’t have a story I don’t have like oh this happened and therefore this happened it’s just stopped moving it’s just the emotional experience moving and probably before we had thoughts we had emotional experiences I mean who knows what kind of thoughts all mammals have but all mammals have these emotions and so yeah that’s the like and they move so much quicker that way so much nicer something else that comes up here around emotions that came from the story of case and the funeral um I recently had had a good friend die a couple months ago and I went through the stages where you know everybody was posting things like some thoughts some and all these thoughts are some form of story and you can see people in different stages of their process different stages of story yeah and I wanted to write something for him too and like post it to Facebook too so that our community could could see it yeah and uh I recall just going from story to story I’d write something and I’d like see that it was story and I’d feel the emotion underneath it I’d write and I did this process for a couple of weeks and then eventually it just dissolved and I didn’t have anything to say yeah and then I had the story that I’m like I should have something to say like my friend died what the heck I should have something to say on Facebook like a couple of paragraphs of words about this human that I loved and it just dissolved and I’m just like I the story that I have to write something is gone too yeah but there’s also a weird Paradox there which is well you know here here we are in a podcast and we’re we’re talking about a lot of our experience but sitting down and writing something we sometimes we want to have a story of course yeah and like a story is a way that we can convey you know we can convey our our life and our experience for others to consume and if you develop this habit of just deconstructing Story the moment it comes to your mind uh well how do you stabilize any story to ever write say a description for one of our recent podcasts that I’ve been stumbling over for several days the way we’re doing it right now is what my experience is yeah I mean we’re sitting here I told three stories you just told me a story and and there’s a way in which they all dissolve as soon as you tell them and imagine the freedom of that like if that’s not not you in particular but the people listening to the podcast imagine the freedom of like watching the stories about your parents dissolve the stories about yourself dissolve this that each one of them is like moved through and then there’s the relief and the freedom of them on the other side and it is a strange phenomenon that I don’t entirely understand everything that I’ve just told you like I’m not attached to it and yet I can talk to talk about it and I can talk about it even with a an air of certainty to it and at the same time it’s it’s completely delusional to me right there’s there’s nothing in me that buys in to it and for a while I was like that like I just couldn’t tell stories like but there was a there was a like a good year and a half where I was just like I don’t even know what what and now I like realize how important they are like they’re they’re they’re what make us humans it’s like stories are so important and and I love them I love watching them I love seeing them it’s yeah yeah well that leaves me with my exercise after we complete this podcast which is to uh Alexa actually suggested this to me yesterday while we were struggling with the description for the last episode uh I’m going to free write on what we just talked about and see what comes of it maybe it’s a description for the episode yeah yeah exactly see what happens awesome yeah I think the the reason just to close it off the reason I thought it was really important to share this is that if there’s people who are listening to the podcast and they’re starting And the emotions are starting to move and the story is starting to dissipate that’s not a problem that’s that’s progress and and it can be disorienting and you can be like wait who am I and and I want to point to the fact that that is great like that is a wonderful wonderful step that’s happening and it’s not to be chased after it just happens naturally yeah it’s a moment of growing past an identity yeah into something larger exactly yeah awesome yeah beautiful thank you Joe yeah pleasure thanks for listening to the art of accomplishment if you enjoyed what you heard today 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