Summary
In this coaching session, a woman asks Joe for help deciding whether to stay with her husband who broke up with her and moved back to his home country. Her husband struggled with heavy depression, shame, and anger he wouldn’t release. She took on responsibility for his happiness, trying to control and help him, which caused him to grow resentful and love to extinguish.
Joe helps her see that she was trying to manage her husband into happiness so she could feel love — that her caretaking was actually a strategy to access love. When she loved herself unconditionally, the question of whether to stay or leave dissolved entirely. The session reveals that her joyfulness and aliveness were caged by the caretaking dynamic, and that unconditional self-love naturally produces the right treatment of others and the clarity to let decisions make themselves.
Key Concepts
Key Quotes
“You’re trying to manage him into happiness so that you can feel love. If you save him, then you get to feel love.”
“Love yourself unconditionally, and then the decision gets made. You don’t need to worry about whether you’re going to be with him or not.”
“I felt more alive in those three weeks breaking up with him and crying on the couch with him than I had in the last three years of our relationship.”
“Unconditionally love yourself and treat him like an adult. Chips fall where the chips fall.”
Transcript
You’re trying to manage him into happiness so that you can get — the same man I fell in love with. In this coaching session we’re going to see the psychological underpinnings of what’s happening for somebody when they’re trying to make others feel good. It happened during one of our live Q&As where people can raise their hand and be coached by me. I hope you get a lot out of it. My husband broke up with me a couple of months ago and moved back to his home country and we’re on a trial separation. Yeah. And the point of the trial is to figure out whether we should stay together and I would love some help in figuring out whether I want to stay with this man or not. How much of the trial is just giving you an excuse — like what — just because he doesn’t want to deal with the consequences of saying I want a divorce? It’s a good question. I proposed it and I think there’s truth in the fact that I wasn’t ready to deal with that consequence. But there’s a lot of love between us. He’s the person who introduced me to you and he’s willing to do the work and so I’m — but there was also so much heaviness that it’s hard to know how to make that choice. Oh Passina, is he depressed? Like a heavy depression and a lot of shame. Wow. And anger that he would not release no matter how much he listened to you. That’s okay. How did it make you feel to be with him in that depression? I don’t know that I realized that when I was with him but now that we’re in this separated feeling I was just so heavy and pushed so much for responsibility and just tried to control everything and tried to help him in any way that I could and instead he grew resentful of me. Yeah. And it just made love just sort of extinguish itself. Yeah. And you know we spent like maybe three weeks together after the breakup before he left the country and we listened to your podcast together and we were trying to rekindle things and I felt more alive in those three weeks breaking up with him and crying on the couch with him than I had in the last three years of our relationship. Yeah. Yeah. What would it take for you to be able to be with him and not take care of him? If I put you in a room — you’re now back in an apartment together, you’re married again, it’s going to be a month together and your only job is to not take care of him, not take responsibility, not take ownership — what would have to change in you to make that happen? I think responsibility is a theme that I’m dealing with at the moment because it’s like — just the question — what is it you would have to do to live with this man and not take responsibility? There’s something about the trust in myself and I have this feeling that I can almost get to it inside of me but it’s a little bit slippery. Yeah. Is what it feels like. What would you have to face if you were responsible for him? You’re not — clearly he’s his own man — but if you were, what would you have to face? I think this takes me — I would have to — if I were taking care of him I wouldn’t be taking responsibility — yeah okay here it is. Right. And that’s what I did. Yeah. That’s right. Yeah. And what are you trying — you’re trying to manage him into — with so that you can fall in love, so that you can be in love. If you save him then you get to feel love. Like assuming it’s a greedy act. Yeah. Assuming that you’re trying to make him happy for your own ends — your ends are so that you can feel that love again. Yeah. Yeah. Right. So even better question — you’re living in this apartment for a month, you can’t take care of him and you have to feel love. What’s that going to require from you? Monumental amounts of unconditional love for myself. I don’t know that I know how to do it but I know that’s what it is. So you just said you don’t know how to do it — give me a good attempt. I don’t know — nah that’s not an attempt, that’s talking. Just show me — just take a shot at the goal even if it’s messed up. Just love yourself for a minute. It feels very silly. I’m like oh my god — that’s what you’ve been holding back! But when you asked me to put myself back in that apartment with him — oh that part of me starts feeling caged again. Yeah. Yeah. The silly, the joyful, the — yeah. And the funny thing is he’s been asking me to be more joyful with him. Like part of the problem — he left me — he’s like you’re not joyful, you know, we can’t have fun, you don’t get my jokes, and I’m like we’re from different cultures, try harder at making jokes. And now he’s not here and I’m so joyful and I’m like but I still love him. So yeah. Yeah. How do I still love him and be joyful? Can I do that? All you have to do is love yourself and then the decision gets made. You don’t need to worry about whether you’re going to be with him or not be with him. What is that like? What does that have to do with the price of cheese, is what my uncle used to say. You love yourself unconditionally — how much does it matter? How much is the question just a question of do I still take care of him? Love yourself unconditionally. Desperate moment again — even put your hand on your heart. Yeah. Feel it. Yeah. And just answer the question — does it matter? How much does it matter if you stay with him or not? It doesn’t. How much does it matter that you know what you’re supposed to do next? I’m okay. I’m having fun right now. And how do you want to treat him right now? How do you want to treat him? What happened to your heart? Yeah. Nobody wants to have sex with a kid either, just by the way. The sex I’m sure is dead. And so — yeah. That’s where the sex drive went. Yeah. I told one of my friends about what you said last week about trying to jump through emotions to get to the orgasm and I already refer to you as the orgasm guy I’m afraid. You’re not gonna live that down. Yeah. So that’s the job — unconditionally love yourself and treat him like an adult. Chips fall where the chips fall. Thank you for helping me feel that in my body. You’re welcome. What a pleasure.