Summary
Joe and Brett explore what it means to “be in your body” — placing a portion of your attention into your physical experience while listening, speaking, or working. This simple act increases self-awareness, prevents losing yourself in conversations, and accelerates flow states. Artists, athletes, and musicians intuitively understand this; corporate teams rarely utilize it.
The conversation distinguishes three centers of intelligence: head (intellectual, analytical), heart (relational, non-binary), and gut (instinctual, feeling-based). Each has its own wisdom and its own blind spots. People who over-rely on intellect miss emotional data driving their decisions. People who over-rely on gut can get captured by unquestioned stories. The key is cultivating all three and recognizing they’re part of one integrated system.
Practical applications are discussed: incorporating movement and body breaks into meetings, using silence and gratitude practices, and the programmer’s finding that 45 minutes on / 15 minutes off produced the best code. The episode concludes with the insight that all decisions are fundamentally emotional — the intellect figures out how to achieve the priority the emotions set — so having access to all forms of knowing makes us more effective and happier.
Key Concepts
- Body awareness is just placing attention in the body
- Head, heart, and gut each offer different intelligence
- Flow state is embodiment applied to life
- All decisions are fundamentally emotional
- The body lies just as much as the mind
- Cultivating all intelligences creates clarity
- Embrace intensity rather than avoid discomfort
Key Quotes
“Put part of your attention into your body. It’s just as simple as that.”
“It makes it far less likely to be able to lose yourself in a situation.”
“The body lies just as much as the mind.”
“We make decisions emotionally. If you take the emotional center out of a person’s brain, people cease to make decisions.”
“The emotion sets the priority and then the intellect goes towards figuring out how to achieve that priority.”
“Don’t forget me. I’m important.” — the body’s wrap-up
Transcript
There’s a way that our body process and our brain processes that requires not thinking and yes I think stimulation being in your body is one of the things that helps that to happen. Welcome to the art of accomplishment where we explore how deepening connection with ourselves and others leads to creating the life we want with enjoyment and ease. I’m Brett Kistler here today with my co-host Joe Hudson. Thank you. In VIEW work we talk a lot about being in our body. There are practices and exercises in the courses where we’re invited to feel into our sensory experience and speak from our head our heart or our gut accessing deeper wisdom beyond our intellect. Now this can be very confusing to people when they approach this work for the first time as it most certainly was for me. Today we’re going to explore what it means to cultivate awareness of what’s going on in our body and how it can help us access different kinds of knowing and wonder in our lives. So Joe what does it mean to be in your body and what makes that so important for this work? Yeah so let’s take that one at a time. The first one is what does it mean to be in your body. So the simplest way to feel that is to put part of your attention into your body. It’s just as simple as that. So if you talk sometimes you can talk your attention’s fully on the other person. Sometimes when you talk your attention is completely on what you want to say and sometimes when you talk you can just put a percentage of your attention into your body and then it changes the dynamic of both the listening and the talking. So that’s the easiest way to explain what it means to be in your body. How does that work? What is it? What does it do then to be putting this attention in your body? It makes it far less likely to be able to lose yourself in a situation meaning that to not speak from your truth to not identify where you are in the conversation to make it so that you’re less likely to be caught up in emotions in a way that’s in which you lose yourself or caught up in somebody else in a way you lose yourself. So it just increases your awareness of yourself and your own system while you’re in a conversation. Interesting there’s almost a sort of a paradox there because I think the practice of feeling into your body while you’re having a business conversation might actually one might think that that would get you lost in your emotions but actually being lost in the emotion would be not recognizing that it’s there. So perhaps having some awareness on our body in a conversation can allow us to be alerted to the fact that maybe we are feeling fear or we’re feeling triggered. Correct that’s what it does is it brings awareness to your emotional or nervous system state while you’re having a conversation. And what I would invite is the people who are listening to this right now to right now put a certain amount of your attention into your own body as you listen. So instead of hearing what I think it does right because neurologically I don’t have any studies that explain this or haven’t found them yet but you can just put a part of your attention in your body when you listen to me and you can feel the difference the different quality of the listening. What does it do? It’s what’s weird about it often when you have some attention in your body especially when you’re beginning you might not even be tracking so as well as you normally are what I’m saying but all the information is actually sinking in meaning you could tell me what it is that I just said but it doesn’t feel like you’re grappling with it the same way. And that’s the other thing that being in your body does is it actually allows for a flow state to happen much quicker. Hey it’s why you see in acting or in sports or in music that people will often do some exercise that puts them in their body that reminds them that their body is there and how it feels because it helps induce a flow state quicker. Yeah it reminds me of an improv intro class that I was at recently. Basically every one of the exercises actually involved a lot of movement. It was a fully embodied thing. It wasn’t just like come up with a line right now on the spot but a lot of the actual improv involved like turning and clapping in synchrony so that your body had to do something at a certain time so that you were just kind of forced to do something from your intuition. Yeah that’s right and it’s interesting because the artists have really figured this out. You know they know it to be very creative this is a requirement is to be in your body. So people who are doing art especially any kind of theater or any kind of collaboration of jazz or something like that they really understand what this means. Like you don’t have to explain it to them because they have the felt experience of it. Yet teams and businesses often don’t utilize this tool at all. You know they’ll sit for a meeting for two or three hours straight as if that’s the best way to be creative or solve problems. Yeah I’m kind of thinking of an opposite situation of being in your body like if you’re in an interview and you’re feeling really tight and constricted and like your body’s kind of not wanting to be there and can’t wait to get out of the hot seat out of the spotlight then that’s sort of the opposite of being in your body and the things that you say and the creativity that you have in those moments is very different from feeling in your body. Yeah that’s exactly how it works right. So if you’re uncomfortable and you put the attention in your body you immediately become more comfortable. And if you try to get out of it which is kind of a general principle that I carry with me everywhere which is embrace the intensity. So it’s like if I’m having a business problem I don’t want to look at it I look at it. If I’m having an emotion I don’t want to be with I be with it. If I’m having a conversation that I’m avoiding I go have the conversation. Yeah if there’s discomfort there feel the discomfort. That’s right yeah and it immediately creates more presence more creativity. And how do we do that in our body? And that’s what when so when I’m saying hey you know speak from your body that’s what I’m speaking to. Or speak from the silence I’ll say something like that too. And it’s you literally get in touch with the silence. Right now you can get in touch with the silence in yourself. There is my voice and that’s taking a certain amount of frequency but there’s a whole bunch of frequency that’s silent. So if you pay attention to that silence or if you pay attention to the silence between what I’m saying. Yeah as I’m doing that I’m having this kind of an interesting experience where I’m going into feeling in my body to think or to feel into what I might say next and I expect there to be silence because it’s like the patterning is my body’s not a part of this conversation it’s just sitting in a chair and I’m talking I’m a part of this conversation my brain is a part of this conversation. So as I feel into the body there’s like an expectation of silence but what I actually feel is that there is something going on in there. There’s a little bit of agitation like oh say something we’re recording make sure it’s good. You know and like that’s present all the time but for me to feel in and like be with that gives me more access to what it is that I actually want to say. Right exactly. And so when you’re just with the thing and then you let it speak whether that’s your body or silence or maybe it’ll be like your head or your heart whatever. It’s literally just being with that aspect of yourself and seeing what it wants to say. And so default for most Americans anyways is that we’re coming from our head and we’re saying what it wants to say. But like right now if you do this like very easy experiment and you say what does my head want to say when you listen to your brain and you say what does my heart want to say and you listen to your heart. What does my body want to say and you listen to your whole body. They’re different experiences right. They have a different quality to them and so they will want to say different things. And the way I conceive of this is that it’s very much like you know they talk about the eight intelligences or some people have more some people have less but there we have different kinds of intelligence and each of these intelligences you know some of them speak naturally and some of them don’t. And learning how to listen to them and learning how to speak their voice is really an important part of being able to master all the ways of knowing. Yeah we did this in one of your courses where we did an exercise in our group where we spoke from our head and then from our heart and then from our gut and it was just a basic introduction of ourselves. And like my first impression of this was like okay this is kind of weird how am I going to repeat my introduction and speak from a different part of my body. That doesn’t make any intuitive sense to me. But as we went around the circle and did it we found that like the first in the head introduction was just a lot of facts and data about who we are. And then speaking from the heart simply from that instruction speak from the heart it resulted in a lot more about who we are as people as an introduction. And then speaking from the gut it really just resulted in a lot more about how we actually feel right now. Like are we nervous are we scared are we hungry. And each of those different levels being present in a conversation is a lot more information. And somebody could be listening to the facts and data about what you think you want in a conversation but they’re just not necessarily going to feel you as much as if they really understand what your needs are as a person. Right yeah and not only can you speak from them you can listen from them. So as I’m talking right now the person who’s listening to this podcast can listen from their head. You know see what I’m saying try to understand it decide whether you think it’s a good idea or a bad idea that I’m speaking about. Or you can listen from your heart and what is that experience if you’re listening from your heart. It has a different quality to it. There’s less of a yes or no to it. There’s less of a binary nature to it. It doesn’t mean that you believe everything that I’m saying but it doesn’t mean you don’t either. It’s like the idea of judging something to be right or wrong is far less important to the heart. And when you’re listening from that place. Or you can listen from your gut. And some people just naturally listen from one of these places. Most people in America their head. But there are some people who are very much operating from their gut all the time and it can be incredibly successful. I mean I know very successful business people who operate from their gut all the time and I know very successful business people who operate from their head all the time. And it’s awesome because oftentimes in this whole world there’s like a better to act from your gut better to act from your head better to act from your heart. You know people have all these judgments and they’re all part of the same system right. Essentially they’re the same thing but it’s useful to make distinction so that we can learn them so that we can incorporate and integrate so we can see them all as one thing. Right and we do have a lot of this encoded into our culture. We say like listen to your heart and you know go with your gut or what my gut instinct says or I have a gut feeling about this. So we do have like some of this encoded in our American culture but a lot of it just seems to have become counter-intuitive for many of us where we are more focused on the head and more focused on the logicy answer and explanation. What makes that the case? What makes it that we like a population of us a culture can largely feel less tightly associated with our heart or our gut or other ways of knowing than our intellect? My body says that’s a really heady question. Like what does it matter if we know how it got here? As soon as we open up that door then there’s going to be like an intellectual discovery maybe a debate not that that’s bad in any way. But what does it get us as opposed to the experience of being able to experience each of these states and seeing what it does when it’s useful how we can use it. So that it makes our life more effective. So just to say that’s like the body response to it. And now intellectually to answer your question. How does this happen? What I notice is that cultures that have really dismissed emotional intelligence that really rely heavily on the intellect right. That the idea is that these emotions have caused me pain and therefore they need to be managed. And that’s kind of where people fall into the intellect which is like brilliant and has like so many benefits. And yeah like I love debating. Like I think it’s such a wonderful thing and to sharpen your mind and to see things clearly intellectually is really amazing. And it can also often teach you stuff about your emotional experience or your body experience. It has a tendency to cut off those other forms of knowing those other intelligences. As do the others too. You see people who are like very much operating from the gut and they have a bias against those operating from their intellect. And you see this in relationships all the time. You know somebody who’s more emotionally led and somebody who’s more intellectually led or at least they think they are. They think they’re more intellectually led. And you get to like see them have problems and not understand each other. I see this in relationships all the time. What are some of the problems that can occur in an imbalance in the other direction? If somebody’s entirely moving from their gut and maybe paying less attention to the heart and even less attention or placing less attention in their intellect or disowning it? What you often see is that they’re far more they have a far more greater propensity to believe their stories. People who are more intellectually driven especially if they’ve really cultivated that the world becomes more relative in a way. Not relative like moral relativity but relative like oh I see the truth in this I can see the truth in this. I can believe this thought that I’m having but I can also see the faults in the thought. And so that creates a tremendous amount of freedom. And if you’re not cultivating that kind of intellectual peacefulness really is what it amounts to then your gut can take you into stories and you can believe them and then they can drive you. It’s kind of the same exact way that you see it with head people right. So people who are more propensity for head they have emotions but they don’t think they do. They’re driving them but they can’t recognize it. Right they’ll have an intellectual debate you’ll see them get angry but they don’t think that there’s any kind of emotional thing that’s creating that. They don’t see the cause and effect on the emotionality. And it’s the same thing like somebody who’s very driven from the gut they won’t see how their stories are affecting them and controlling them in ways that are unconscious. So maybe they walk into a room and they start to feel anger and so they just believe that the anger means that they’ve been wronged. That’s exactly right. And yeah okay I can see. And then they have a story about how they were wronged but they don’t question it. And if you question it in front of them they get more upset right. So yeah exactly. It’s really about finding and understanding learning all the intelligences. It’s not about one’s better than the other which is a natural step on the path of learning. You know I see people really intellectual and all of a sudden they understand like holy crap my body has all this wisdom and they start using the body wisdom and then the body becomes the irrevocable truth and direct connection to God and intelligence and wisdom which is not true either. The body can get confused as well or the heart does and the heart can get confused as well. So it’s really about being able to listen to all three of them that gives you a lot more clarity. Yeah one of my favorite things that you’ve ever said to me when I had a question around this topic was the body lies just as much as the mind. Yeah and that’s really fascinating to me because these different ways of understanding and knowing in the world are all of them are being fed by imperfect data from the world around us that is biased based on our own experience. And there is no there’s no gut knowing in us that has experienced the totality of human experience and knows everything. But each of these different ways has its own is optimized for different things and if we fluidly recognize and work with all of them then we are best able to navigate a changing world. When I said to you it’s a lie I’m not saying that’s not true but I think that might be a little bit confusing for people who are listening. So I like to describe it like if I take a picture of you and then I walk two feet to the right and take another picture of you both of those pictures are true. They’re actually moments in time that are there but they’re both lies because they’re going to capture different things. Like they’re not going to be the entirety of the truth right. And so it’s the same thing. It’s like there’s moments where our thoughts are capturing a small percentage of the truth or a large percentage of the truth but it’s never capturing all the truth. And it’s the same with the body. And this is the really uncomfortable piece is that you know we are limited to the capacity of our senses and our mind. There are things that we will never be able to understand because of that. Because our minds and our senses are limited and we cannot understand. For instance there’s some little itty-bitty shrimp thing but it’s not a shrimp. I think it’s called the mantis shrimp but it’s not actually a shrimp or something. And it has like 12 color spectrum instead of the three red green and blue spectrum. Like it sees things that we can never possibly ever imagine right. And so we’re never going to have an understanding like that. The mantis shrimp or a dog for that matter right. We have and they will never understand things that we can understand. And I think that’s what makes people really uncomfortable is the truth of the fact that we don’t know we can’t know. It doesn’t mean that we don’t know what’s right for us right now. It doesn’t make life purposeless. It’s just the humility of the fact that there is always going to be a mystery right. And that notion of operating on like our limited senses is interesting and another branching off point for this discussion because something that I and many other people have experienced doing this work is that over time like I’ve noticed that my sensory experience has actually become richer. I’m able to feel more subtle tactile sensation and particularly socially if I’m with people and I’m placing awareness on my body I will be able to notice something going on in them. Like our social nervous systems have some kind of communication that I wouldn’t be picking up if I just parsed the words they said. And so there actually is like cultivating this like heart and this gut and this connection to the body simply by placing awareness on the body. I’ve been finding has been increasing my sensory awareness of actual relevant communication with other people and my environment. What do you make of that? So when I was in my 20s I made an album I guess a CD some digital music thing. And at the beginning of that the way I listened to music was so different than at the end of that experience. When you dig into a baseline for three hours you will never listen to a bass line the same way again right. So a studio engineer listens to music in a way that I will never listen to music. And you because of your base jumping experience like feel wind in a way that I can never feel wind. And unless I put a lot of attention and time into it. Or you know it’s the same thing like with people who live in ice all the time they have like 70 words for ice and we have whatever it is three or four right. So there’s a sensitivity that comes whenever you start putting your attention into something. And it can seem like magic to people. You know when people see me do my one-on-one work oftentimes I think it’s magic. And all it is is just years and years and years of cultivating the awareness in myself and then extrapolating and seeing those patterns in other people. And so yeah things happen on the field of vision will change or the way we feel things will change the tactile nature of it. And oftentimes it becomes more enjoyable and a little more overwhelming like in waves. It’s like oh that’s a little over okay now it’s enjoyable over time. But then it can go deeper into that too. It can go into really feeling like being in touch with say your mirror neurons or your social nervous system and start being in touch with other people. And it can look like magic the same way it looks like magic when you know the group of indigenous people go up into the hills before the tidal wave. Like they know it’s coming because they have adapted to listening to nature for every day decades and decades and decades. Whereas like we take a walk in the woods. Right or that’s an experienced firefighter that suddenly just has this intuition that everybody needs to get out before the floor collapses. Correct yeah there’s a lot of research on this and Blink by Malcolm Gladwell is talks a lot about pattern recognition and intuition and how that happens in the brain. And then the neuroscience is getting more and more developed on it. Yeah I mean ultimately whatever there is to say about the neuroscience just the way the nervous system works is that whatever patterns you are paying attention to and tuned to are going to be the ones that become processed in more fine detail. That’s right. And so as we learn to listen to our bodies as we learn to listen to our hearts. Like it’s amazing like if I’m coaching a CEO who was an athlete I’ll use the body metaphor all the time because they get it. And if I’m talking to a CEO who’s had like a really healthy Christian background I’ll speak to the heart a lot because they really get it. It’s like that’s been cultivated for years and years and years. The trick is to really cultivate all of them in a way that they can start integrating and see that they’re really the same thing. Yeah that was an important part of my journey in this work for myself. I had come from like a strong athletic background where I had been working with flow in my body for years. But socially and in business I still had this like constriction where I would frequently just get up into my head and then try to like create an intellectual path forward through everything. And it wasn’t until starting to see how I had already been doing this intuitive stuff with my body and like just taking those examples from my life. Like yeah if you’re flying a wingsuit down a mountain you don’t have time to calculate wind speeds and trajectories you just have to feel it. You can do all that stuff in advance to give yourself a good map of plans and contingencies but in the moment you don’t have time for that. You just have to do it in your body. And the body will generally if you’re cultivating that bodily awareness the body will generate better solutions. And it was really interesting for me to realize that I had just left that knowing in one realm where it served me very well and then completely neglected it in much of the rest of my life until encountering this work. Yeah what’s interesting is that when people oftentimes understand it and then they’ll say okay I’m just going to use that body intelligence for when the chips are down when I have to act fast right when I can’t calculate. And I think there’s some intelligence to that. I mean obviously that’s the best time to use that kind of intelligence. But there’s a space for that same body intelligence even when you have lots of time even when you can calculate all the data. You see this happen all the time where like people can spend months calculating all the data to make a decision and if they get in connection with the rest of their being not just the intellect that decision can be made far better and more effective. You can see that all the time. So it’s most acute when you’re doing something like playing jazz or skydiving or in a clutch shooting a three-pointer. But it can it is a useful thing to be in every conversation. And I’ll say to the people who are listening again how are you doing being in your body listening. Like are you still have some of your attention in your body and what happens. Like just notice a difference between how you hear me when you have some of your attention in your body and when you don’t. Yeah it’s a way out of analysis paralysis. Like the episode that we did in the art of accomplishment on feel over figure. Like in a business context there can be many decisions where if you just keep researching for more facts and data to make your decision depending on where you look you’ll keep finding more evidence for or more evidence against or more evidence that you don’t know what you’re doing so that you determine you need more evidence and you could do that ad infinitum and then just be stuck in that logic. Or at some point if it’s optimal to just make a decision even if it might be wrong and then calibrate your gut then it can be helpful just to say okay with all the data that I have right now let me just process that into my body and see what comes up and then go with that and then pay close attention to the result and repeat. Yeah and there’s also like the emotional side of that too which is like oh what’s making you need to have the decision be right? What happens if you get it all wrong? What happens if you fail? And to grieve all that before you make a decision can clarify your decision to know. Right so there’s a feel all those bodily sensations associated with failure. Right exactly right. So go feel those in advance and then you’ll make a clear decision. I mean that’s the thing is that you know we know through neuroscience that as much as you can know that we make decisions emotionally. Like if you take the emotional center out of a person’s brain I think we’ve discussed this before. People cease to make decisions. It takes them half an hour to decide what color pen to use or four hours to decide where to have lunch. Simple decisions can’t be made. We’re using our intellect to try to figure out how to get into the emotional state we want to get into. That’s what the intellect is. You know I’m trying to figure out the right way to win. Okay well what makes you want to win? Because then I’ll be safe. What makes you want to be safe? It just becomes obvious that it’s an emotional decision very quickly. The emotion sets the priority and then the intellect goes towards figuring out how to achieve that priority. And feeling into the emotion and feeling into the bodily sensation pattern of that emotion and even beneath that emotion allows us to have more access to that context from which our intellect can serve us. It’s a simple thing of just having access to all of it and incorporating all of it. It also just makes you happier. It just makes you much happier to not be in the intellect or in the heart or in the gut all the time. Yeah well we have talked about this on a previous episode so maybe we can give this a different twist now. How can we in an organization cultivate practices for example in meetings that cultivate people paying attention to their bodies and these different forms of intelligence within a work context? How can you create that in a culture and make space for that in a way that feels welcoming and not esoteric and confusing? Yeah there’s a couple ways to do that are really simple that they will feel odd if you’re say like a traditional company. But you can make sure that there’s time to get up and stretch or move in the meetings. That it’s okay for someone to stand up in a meeting and just like shake or stretch a little bit or take some deep breaths. There’s a company that I know that they have like a bell or something in all of their meeting rooms and when that bell gets hit there’s just like a moment of silence for everybody to just check in with their bodies to just be present. I think that’s what they call it. They don’t say be in your body but I think the way they use it is like just get in touch with what’s happening right here and now. Yeah it seems like a good pattern interrupt for when people start going down an intellectual debate rabbit hole that might be off topic or things get heated and it might be a good opportunity for people to check in and see how they’re actually feeling so they’re not just responding from a pattern. Yeah yeah. I sat on a board where we would do meditation at the beginning of all the board meetings. That was like five minutes of meditation. That was an interesting way to incorporate. A different way I find gratitude practices are another way to not only get into the body. It’s interesting how when you’re really grateful you have a deeper experience of your own body. But also it helps you see a way of solving problems that’s different. Like when you’re grateful you can see what’s right and how to build it rather than in most meetings you’re looking at what’s wrong and how do I fix it. Which are two different ways to solve problems. So those are some really basic ways inside of whether it’s a company or a church or a community of whatever activists. You know there’s ways to cultivate that kind of stuff. I had a friend who was a programmer and the way he would do it he was mostly at home. 45 minutes in an hour he’d set in and program and 15 minutes he would be in his body. And then 45 minutes he’d program. And you know being a programmer he every day measured his practices and measured his results like how good a programming he did and how effective it was. And so he had done years of experiments to get to this. And he found that like six hours of programming a day 45 minutes on 15 minutes off consistently five days a week is what got the most code out of him. The most good code out of him. Wow. I love that. He did so much. You know got a collection on this huge amount. And I know writers hear the same way that novelists who have realized like three hours a day first thing in the morning that’s how I get the most good pages out. Yeah this reminds me of strategies like the Pomodoro Technique which you know you do some amount of time on and then some amount of time off. And it’s sort of the assumption that I had come to that with was that the benefit was from taking a break. The benefit was from like focusing for a while and then just relaxing. But this is a kind of a different twist on it that you know perhaps what are you actually doing in that period when you’re relaxing. You’re probably getting up from your chair wandering around making yourself a drink or something. And you know a lot of times like thoughts come to us in the shower which is a moment where we are having a lot of sensory information coming in from our body and like pulling us out of our minds. Like maybe I wonder how correlated that is just having a lot of sensation bringing us out of the small world of our like the detailed world of our logic and intellect and into a more complex intuition. Jumping in the ocean being one of those things. Yeah yeah. So there’s some you know very famous scientists who talk about how they solve problems. And you know when you’re a scientist you think about how to solve problems as much as you think about hopefully as much as you think about the problem that you’re trying to solve. And one of them who won a Nobel Prize I can’t remember his name but he would say I’d think about the problem I would get into it I’d like and if I couldn’t solve it I would tell myself it’s no longer okay for you to think about this problem until the solution presents itself in whole. So anytime his brain would go to think about the problem he’s like nope nope not thinking about the problem not thinking about the problem. Until the entire solution fell out. And I think it’s the same thing which is there’s a way that our body process and our brain processes that requires not thinking. And yes I think stimulation being in your body is one of the things that helps that to happen. A break is one of the things that helps that to happen. I’ve come to think of like emotions and physical sensation as sort of a doorway to the subconscious. Like if you have a problem and it’s a salient enough problem for you your subconscious is going to be processing it whether or not you are actively doing so. It’s just that when you are when you’re using your intellect you’re taking this problem space and then collapsing it down to a particular logical structure that fits in you know the four things you can hold in working memory at a time. Like these four chunks there’s some research behind that. And sometimes that’s just not enough complexity to be able to solve a problem. And just letting it go and remain background processing. The subconscious I feel like that’s very tightly related to what we’ve been talking about with the body’s wisdom and the body’s knowledge. The reason I call it the body’s knowledge or the heart or the head is because they’re just good pointers right. I mean I don’t think our intellect just operates in our brain and I don’t think our love just operates in our heart and I don’t think that our emotions just operate in the gut. You know it’s like they’re just good pointers. And so I think it’s just really important to see it all as one. At one level just see that it’s all just our intelligence. It’s the whole system and all of them are really useful and good pointers. Yeah ultimately it’s our whole system that is making decisions. It’s our whole system that is taking in information and processing it. And the more we feel into and acquaint ourselves and connect to our entire system the more of our capacity we have access to to navigate the world. Seems to be the case. Yeah well that’s my intellectual sort of wrap up of this conversation. Yeah that’s what I was thinking. I was thinking that was an intellectual wrap-up. But what would a non-intellectual wrap-up be? Hmm. What’s a body wrap up? Don’t forget me. I’m important. You know the body is either like worshiped in some way or it’s like set aside right. It’s like this burden thing that I have to carry along that’s one day going to kill me. Something that I have to like take care of. It’s like a chore the body becomes a chore. Or the body becomes like the entire way to feel good. You know you can see that happening with people as well. Yeah feeling into myself to close the episode from my body I’m feeling just more open in the wonder in the question. Like the desire is to invite myself and all of our listeners to stay with this whatever feeling in the body this episode has brought up. To stay with it and be in the wonder and see what happens. And how about from the heart? What would the heart how would the heart want to close this episode? First thing that comes up is gratitude. Gratitude to be able to have these conversations and to be able to share them. And gratitude for feedback. There’s a deep wanting to feel how this conversation lands in people right. Yeah so it’s like a desire for connection and gratitude. It’s not even a desire for as much as an acknowledgment of. Yeah that’s an acknowledgment of. And that definitely puts me in a different place. It’s definitely a more open place where you know if I were to walk away from this conversation straight to one of our listeners I feel like I’d be a lot more curious about their experience than immediately after my intellectual wrap-up. Which would have been like you know what do you think was it right was it wrong. Yeah I remember hearing that from like Oprah Winfrey and she said like it doesn’t matter who it was Presidents or the number one thing that people if I think she might even said everybody does is look over and says was I good. Yeah did that work. Or you know like so looking to see if it had worked out yes no based on a certain criteria. Yeah and what I noticed is that like if we’re ending on in our heart that question doesn’t arise. Yeah the question arises like what’s happening for you arises. Yeah it’s interesting. And so how about if they’re all together? What if it’s like the gut the emotional aspect the head and the heart body are all in it? Yeah from everything it’s just thank you everybody for listening. Thank you Joe for this conversation. I am really looking forward to hearing how this episode landed in people. So reach out and speak to us from your heart and from your gut and from your head. Thanks for listening to the art of accomplishment. 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