Summary
Joe and Brett do a deep dive into the emotional inquiry tool — what it is, how it works, and how it differs from other emotional practices. Emotional inquiry is a practice for moments when you resist an emotional experience. Rather than pushing the emotion away, you explore it the way a three-year-old would pick up a frog — with full-body intimacy, wonder, and curiosity rather than analysis or observation from a distance.
The practice is grounded in VIEW: vulnerability (actually allowing the emotion to touch you), impartiality (not trying to change the emotion), empathy (being with yourself without fixing), and wonder (awe rather than analysis). Joe emphasizes that this is a fully embodied, intimate practice — not watching emotions from the “top down” but experiencing them from the “inside out.” The tool has three staged phases of inquiry questions designed in a specific order based on somatic experiencing principles.
Joe describes the typical progression: first people can’t conceive of welcoming difficult emotions, then they discover emotions feel different when welcomed and try to use the tool to eliminate emotions (at which point it stops working), and finally it becomes automatic — people start looking forward to uncomfortable emotions because of the freedom on the other side. He compares returning to the practice to returning to a sunset: not because it didn’t work, but because the experience is always fresh.
Key Concepts
- Emotional inquiry is embodied exploration not observation
- Emotions show up differently when not resisted
- Savoring emotions is like a deep tissue massage
- The stages of emotional inquiry practice
- Identity must be fluid for emotional inquiry to work
Key Quotes
“It’s basically looking at your emotional experiences through the eyes of VIEW… it’s vulnerable which means you actually allow it to touch you, you actually feel it.”
“It’s like the difference between I can accept my emotions and I can welcome my emotions. I can’t wait to feel jealous again, I can’t wait to feel angry again.”
“You actually start getting really excited to have uncomfortable experiences because you know the freedom that’s on the other side.”
“What makes me come back to this tool is the same thing that makes me come back to a sunset day after day.”
“Each one of these emotional experiences was a rejected part of you and you continue to reject it. So what is it like to face it differently?”
Transcript
[Music] wow so that was that was a hell of a call this morning yeah man that was that that was humbling that was beautiful yeah we just had the the opening call for the for this year’s great decisions course and we’ve had the most signups we’ve ever had and the biggest cohort I think we’re at what 130 people yeah just about yeah yeah yeah and surely a lot of people are going going to be asking about the uh how they can use the use this Tool uh in their lives going beyond the course so I’m excited to talk about this yeah I I think it’s important to start with like somebody’s like emotional inquiry what the hell are you talking about I let’s start there what to me that’s the big piece is like what is it yeah what is what is the essence yeah what’s the what’s the essence of the of the tool yeah so I would say we have these emotional experiences and um some of them are we don’t resist and some of them we resist and so this is a tool for when you resist an emotional experience this often happens in like a millisecond a split second like something comes up you push it away and jump into your social media or something comes up and you like push it away and get to work right and so it’s for those moments that’s what the tool is for and what it is is taking that emotional experience and looking at it exploring it the way a little kid would pick up a frog and explore frog or the way that um a little kid would look at um an antill and the important thing there is that it’s it’s like it’s basically looking your at your emotional experiences Through The Eyes of you so it’s vulnerable which means you actually allow it to to touch you you actually feel it it’s um impartial meaning you’re not trying to change it you’re not trying to change your emotional experience which can be a trick we can talk about that in a bit um and then you’re full of wonder and you’re having empathy for yourself right where you’re not lost in the story but you’re not dismissing the story right you’re not lost in the emotional experience but you’re not dismissing the emotional experience and so so so you’re in View and that that’s basically the practice and it looks like a guide of meditation um will put I’m sure at some point a a way for people to access it in the show notes or whatnot but um it feels like a guided meditation at first um and that’s how we teach it is through a guided meditation but it it soon can become very automatic so I heard I heard you say how I heard you mention how it’s like a like a kid playing with a frog and there’s a lot of different ways a lot of different kids might play with a frog and so one one thing that I’ve noticed especially coming from like a scientific intellectual perspective I might look at a frog like a little kid would dissect a frog and you’re like oh okay here’s here’s what’s going on here’s what this means here’s where this came from here’s what mom or dad said that made this happened this way and now we’re now we’re here and here’s what I should do is that yeah how does that relate to what you mean it’s more the way the more well think about I think that that’s an age thing so I’m talking about like a three-year-old kid like they grab the Frog and they pick it up and they smell it and they look at it and they look at all angles of it and they touch it and they it’s like this this very interactive very sematic very physical experience with just like the Wonder and abandoned of a little kid yeah yeah okay and so what does this do when you when we when we notice a resisted or avoided emotion and we bring the tool of emotional inquiry to that moment what what happens what will change yeah everything it’s one of the most powerful tools if it’s applied most people will slow down on the application of it or find distraction because it they can create so much transformation so quickly um but basically if you think about when we resist emotions what it does right so it is an attempt not to feel our addictions are an attempt not to feel our judgment is an attempt not to feel so this practice can reduce self-judgment reduce the Judgment of others this practice can change bad habits this practice can um improve your ability to communicate with others it can help you stop avoiding conflict if you look at like almost any one of the things that you want to change in your life right so if someone’s like I want to make more money right there’s an emotion around money they’re avoiding and so this inquiry practice is a way not to avoid that to actually become friends with it um if somebody saying oh my marriage is on the rocks and there’s anot they’re not wanting to feel there is a way in which they’re not speaking their truth because they’re scared of some emotional consequence so when people apply this tool and they apply it regularly and for an extended period of time a whole [shit] ton changes and and basically anywhere where the where emotions are being avoided and that’s the cause of the problem this tool will change that we we it’ll just start opening up that reality okay all right all right so how how how does it work what makes it what makes it do that what makes it have that yeah so so there there’s a couple ways to explain it the first one is the the the the the when we have resist something it’s different than when we don’t so think about it this way I’m going and talking to someone let’s say I’m trying to pitch somebody on who’s raising $40 million for my company as an example and the person is resisting me the whole way I’m going to show up differently then if the person I’m pitching pitching is not a great word for this but I’m telling the story of my company to somebody who could fund it um and they’re not resisting they’re like open and they’re curious and I’m going to show up differently so we all everything shows up differently when it’s resisted and when it’s not resisted emotions are no different emotions show up differently when they’re resisted and when they’re not resisted so when we bring view into our into our emotional experience when we do emotional inquiry and we bring that wonder and that empathy and that vulnerability basically what happens is that it shows up differently and when it shows up differently as it turns out usually more comfortable usually something you can invite and welcome something that you start appreciating something that you can start seeing the signal through the noise of those emotions and so it allows us to stop avoiding emotion it it is a one tool in helping us not only be with but appreciate and welcome our emotional experience and get the benefit and get the signal out of our emotions got it so I might ask what’s the benefit of that but that’s basically what every episode of our podcast is about so I won’t belabor that point but what are what are some of the important aspects of the use of this tool if it is to work that’s a great question so the important aspects for the use of the tool so um so view is is the view is critical right so which I’ve gone over so I’m not going to do that again the other thing is that it it feels very intimate with the emotions right so in some practices emotional practices it doesn’t feel intimate it feels like you’re kind of above and watching m and there’s a watching aspect to this but there’s there’s a deep intimacy to it it’s like the that’s why I say like a little kid picking up a frog there’s an intimacy it’s like you’re in it so that’s a really important part it’s not the kid looking at the Frog through glass right exactly right okay and there’s also an there’s an embod this is a whole body thing it’s not like a lot of emotional I would call acceptances emotional acceptance practices is it’s like um it’s not embodied it’s like you’re kind of watching it but it’s not like you’re not fully like you’re not fully feeling the physical experience of the emotion and so this is very much about like feeling into the emotional experience on a sematic level so it’s again it’s another way to say intimacy but it’s like it it’s a whole body activity it’s it’s not a it’s not like a figuring out it’s it’s there’s no trying to figure out frog yeah right you’re in wonder you’re not in curiosity meaning like you’re like in the awe of the experience and that’s a fully embodied thing rather than in a I’m trying to figure you out experience got it yeah okay so so what else View and being an embodied experience yeah the other yeah the other really important part of this practice is that that what happens typically is that the practice has the first phase which is okay here’s this emotion qu oh wow my emotions are like oh there’s like less resistance and it feels better and this is great and wait where did that anxiety go where did that like guilt go where did that fear go and then you start using the tool to get rid of the fear to get rid of the guilt and then it stops working just like you doesn’t work with yeah just like view doesn’t work with partiality it’s the same thing as soon as you start doing it not as a form of welcoming not as a form of invitation but as a form of of management getting rid of the tool just working yeah so the mo just like many of any of our tools the moment you’re trying to use it to get to an outcome then it’s not the tool anymore the tool is a tool of exploration yeah yes that’s right okay so so what makes what makes emotional inquiry different from some other similar types of tools or guided meditations out there and I’m imagining people might ask about gendlin focusing or realization process and and I don’t mean to like ask for a compare and contrast against all the other bodies of work there but what is what is that question even yeah is it sounds like what’s the difference yeah but what’s what’s the difference that makes this what it is yeah what makes you bring what made you make this tool for for this work yeah the the main the main thing that you know when I started doing my o own experiments with it and I think on this podcast I’ve even talked about like feeling like a gut punch and then going back to the situation to feel that gut punch over and over and over again so I could fully explore it I had been meditating for years and and in the meditation it it felt like I mean it was like there was a non-personal aspect which was nice I was watching it which was nice but there wasn’t like an Embrace there it was like the difference between I can accept my emotions and I can welcome my emotions I can like I can’t wait to feel jealous again I can’t wait to feel angry again I can’t like there like it’s that turn and for me the practices now obviously I can’t speak to all the practices I’m not an expert in all the practices some of them may or may not do this and and I will say my experience in things like focusing they’re they all have great benefits so I’m not in any way ranking one above the other and I highly suggest that nobody does like [shit] better than go out and explore try stuff out see what works for you see when it works for you it’s like that’s a run an experimental model I think that’s a far more productive way than putting one thing above another thing um and the reason that it was it was created what what made it important to me and that what I didn’t find any place else in my limited experience was was that kind of it was like observational and every place else it was an acceptance it wasn’t like a it wasn’t a welcoming it wasn’t a warm embrace it wasn’t loving attention and it wasn’t fully embodied it wasn’t like I wasn’t I was watching the way the odd way to say it is I was watching my emotional experience from the top down rather from the inside out and so I really wanted to create something that really was from the inside out that was really deeply a felt intimate experience that had like the emotional um uh like the emotional underpinings but also like in a way scientific where we’re really making observations and really figuring out very minute parts of the emotional experience the other thing that happens is it’s it is designed in such a way where there’s three stages of the emotional of the emotional inquiry and these different stages are in a very particular order because I find them to work really well in that order um and so it it helps in in in that way as well that it’s a very staged approach of the inquiry it’s not just a general be with that it is a very specific you know here’s the first set of questions second set of questions third set of questions yeah I also appreciate just the way that like you were describing the the intimacy of the the child with the frog that yeah the the the tool includes a lot of sensory modalities it’s like what is it what’s the color of this feeling what does it look like from behind or in front of it how does it where’s the boundaries of it and this helps to just integrate across a lot of different of of our of our sensory modalities to allow them to talk to one another and that’s something I really appreciate here and I’m also curious what are some of the different ways it’s actually even it’s I don’t really geek out on this much but it’s actually even more refined than that in the fact that it’s like there’s you know I’m crossing midlines there’s a lot of ways in which the brain understands things that like we’re utilizing and and we’re we’re also playing with the sense of self in it there’s a the questions are designed to go through a set of stages based on the way that sematic experiencing and a lot of the occupational therapy stuff works and so what are some of the different ways that it might look for different people for example or in different context in your life I mean at the beginning I hope it doesn’t I mean yeah okay so at the very beginning when people start doing it they they you know the typical questions are why would I ever want to invite anxiety why would I ever want to welcome anxiety um yeah from this perspective that’s funny from that perspective it’s not funny at all it’s like wait I’ve spent my whole life trying to [shit] get rid of that and that’s the answer is you’ve spent your whole life trying to get rid of it it hasn’t [shit] worked that’s why like that’s the reason why you go to welcome it because each one of these emotional experiences was a rejected part of you and you continue to reject it and so what is it like to face it differently and I think that’s another thing just about the emotional inquiry in general is like how like we have a relationship with our emotions and most of the time we’re only dealing with one side of that relationship we want this emotion to be this way or that way or not present itself or present it self we’re not working on how we approach the emotion are we approaching it with Wonder are we approaching it with love are we approaching it with care or are we approaching it with disdain are we approaching with trying to get rid of it and so and so that’s a that’s a that’s a really so that’s the first stage so first stage people are like they can’t even intellectually conceive why they would want to welcome it and and so in those particular places it’s really to just do the guided thing and and just keep that little kid view mindset and just keep it and just see what happens just like take it fully as experimental and just play with it um as people start to see it and it’s like oh it’s it’s like oh I get this is happening then the next thing that where people interact with it is they’re like oh wait anxiety is actually can be like really Pleasant and wait where’s the anxiety where did it go is that anxiety or is that actually excitement what the what the hell’s happening and then they’re like oh I can get rid of my anxiety by doing emotional inquiry and then it stops working so that’s another stage that like typically happens in it and then at some point it kind of can become automatic where you’re just like like what what happens you actually start getting really excited to have uncomfortable experiences o because you know the fre that’s on the other side right it’s like it’s like if you were learning to hit a fast ball and like you you’re and you and you don’t have a pitcher who throws fast balls all the time when they throw them you’re like oh good now I get to learn how to hit the fastball and so that’s very much a a big part of it where you start really looking forward to it because you feel how much freedom and access you have on the other side of it and when that stage happens then you know the emotional inquiry can happen much more rapidly it’s just like oh good like because then you’re just welcoming this emotional experience and and listening to what it has to say to you and then it just kind of becomes this automatic thing that you still need to occasionally go back to like the long form just to make sure that you’re not co-opting or missing something but yeah that’s generally how it moves what I so so speaking so yeah relevant to the different ways that it might look there are what I heard you say that there people have different patterns around those emotions that I imagine they’re just going to bring into the emotional inquiry so for one person their first emotional inquiry practice might look like oh all right it’s time to endure this emotion and another one might be like okay I’m just gonna like jump straight through it to the other side another one might be I’m gonna sit above it and observe it and right look what’s happening in my body but I’m not really there so that that might be or I got to get this right I got to get this emotional inquiry right and cut off all their emotions yeah yeah and then and then there’s also the different ways that it looks throughout the journey where your first time I might be every morning sitting down and listening to one of the guided meditations and it might mean at one point having a difficult conversation at work and suddenly being like Oh wait I could right now do a little bit of inquiry on this yeah even in the middle of the conversation I’m having just take a moment to pause and be with that feeling in myself and that then and then it can be anything in between correct yeah yeah and and it is it isn’t I would even say I could be with the fiend or I could invite the FI I can Sab her there it won’t make sense to anybody who’s doing like when you first download like you go to the thing and you download and you listen this won’t make sense to you but maybe the 10th 20th 30th 40th time you do it it’ll make sense which is like it’s a sabering it’s like there is like H every emotion has like a a level of pleasure to it if you can really savor it you know it’s just like a it’s like a deep tissue massage there’s a way to enjoy it and the more you enjoy it the less resistance there is the more enjoyable it becomes and so for a lot of people who are listening to this they’ve they’ve taken the course or they’re in the course most of them haven’t and so I’m curious like how does how does this tool fit into the context of a course and also how can somebody who’s not taking a course at all yeah use this in their lives yeah so like I said it can create a lot of transformation very quickly so it’s really important to be uh taking care of yourself grounded massage hot baths it’s like make sure your nervous system is really well taken care of if you’re doing this in any kind of concentrated way um uh also you know there’s not particularly a rush to it meaning like it it’s there’s a rush to it in the fact that like oh if I do this and I’m dedicated transformation will happen quickly and I’m not going to be in so much pain for as long there’s not rush into it is that like if you don’t get to it that your Pain’s still going to be there so you know like it’s always going to be there to work on so so so I would say the the priority is to do it while taking care of your nervous system while making sure that you are getting the rest that you need and the integration time that you need so that’s that’s important in any context um for people who are in the decisions course like you have a tremendous amount of support people you have a lot of support in that room you in those rooms you have people who are are dying to you know care for you and support you people who are going through the same stuff you have all these tools you have access to all these coaches there’s like all this beautiful parts to it and so that’s designed so people can do that transformation quickly um or with a lacity I I wouldn’t be quick but um and so I would say take advantage of that and and I would say outside of the group and one-on-one work this is the place you want to focus is doing that two or three times a day doing that work um for people outside of the course do it experiment with it play with it um take care of your nervous system run experiments find out what works for you find out what doesn’t work for you and if you get into it and you find like you can’t do it without the support of a course join the course next year if you get into it and you want like The Logical placees The Logical integration and the integration with decision- making and habits and everything then the course might be really useful to you I think the the other main thing if you’re doing it without the course is like having the conversation with friends and family if you’re really dedicated to it about how you need support in the process and ask for that support and ask because there’ll be a lot of changes really quickly yeah to to that end to the to the changes you had mentioned earlier how there’s a there’s an aspect of like seeing through the sense of self that’s involved here and one thing that I’ve noticed is that if if I go into emotional inquiry with the notion of who I am being being concrete and solid and you know the kind of decisions that I make being decided and then I’m like okay I’m going to do the emotional inquiry then I’m going to go do exactly the thing that I was going to do anyway uh it doesn’t it doesn’t tend to work it’s like I have to go into I have to go into it with the with a childlike perspective of being intimately in Wonder with the Frog as well as with myself my sense of self my my sense of what kind of decision I might expect myself to make having actually integrated and experienced and savored any of the emotions that come up yeah yes that that’s so well said and what a great reminder and and it’s funny like today this morning some somebody asked there’s quite a few people who’ve done the course before doing the course again and somebody asked why are you back and I think I don’t know what made them ask that question I could imagine what made them ask that question is does it not work do you need to do it twice um but it was really cool to to but it was really cool to uh to see the responses which was I’m a completely different person now so I know that this thing will affect me differently because I’m I’ve changed so dramatically in the last year it was a really neat like perspective on what brought them back they’re like oh it’s like a refresher in and like anything you know it’s like what makes you come back to a Meditation Retreat right there’s um a practice form of it and then it just becomes automated after a while which is a really nice state to be in yeah yeah I feel like what makes me come back to this tool which is a foundational tool in our work is the same thing that makes me come back to a sunset day after day you know [shit] that’s so good that’s exactly it yeah yeah oh wow beautiful oh that’s H [shit] yes I want to end the podcast right there that’s [shit] so beautiful yeah well not quite there we’re GNA end it with a reminder that in the show notes you can find a link to access this tool and enjoy it yep and you can ask questions of us on the podcast page about it if you want to you can also ask questions on Twitter so anyway you want to get in contact with us and interact we enjoy that yep on Twitter we are on X we are art ofac comp and uh we both have our personal accounts there as well yeah and oursite yeah Fu Joe Hudson and Eric kler it’s hard to say yours with the underscore [shit] you in the show notes all right thanks thanks for a great great uh great session BR appreciate it yeah thank you and thank you everybody for listening take care