Summary
Joe Hudson and Brett Kistler discuss what makes a functional team. Joe argues there’s no single definition of a functional team — functionality depends on context — but the universal ingredient is trust. The best measure of a functional team isn’t just hitting goals but that people genuinely want to be a part of it. He explores how trust is multifaceted (financial, conflict resolution, performance, communication) and how it’s built through difficult conversations, not avoided ones.
The conversation covers how safety in teams isn’t about removing all risk but about creating an environment where people feel free to express themselves while accepting the inherent unsafety of the challenge. Joe references Google’s Aristotle Project, which found the most functional teams were ones where everyone felt free to express themselves. He emphasizes that conflict-avoidant managers destroy trust, that political organizations emerge when success is based on relationships rather than performance, and that goals and metrics should be treated as ongoing experiments rather than fixed mandates.
Joe shares a story of walking into a company meeting where no one was listening to the CEO, and within an hour surfacing the real issues by naming the uncomfortable truth. He closes by noting that everyone wants the same kind of team — supportive, trustworthy, functional — and the path starts with owning your wants.
Key Concepts
- Trust is the universal ingredient of functional teams
- Functional teams are measured by wanting to be there
- Conflict-avoidant managers destroy trust
- Safety in teams is tuned not maximized
- Politics arise when success is not performance-based
- Goals and culture are experiments not mandates
- CEO emotional avoidance blocks team truth
Key Quotes
“The best way I know the measures that people want to be a part of it. People like it. The people who are staying, who are consistently a part of that team, enjoy being a part of the team.”
“Any conflict avoidant manager — if you are listening to this and you are a conflict avoidant manager — your team does not trust you. I guarantee it.”
“If you have people bringing conflict to you all the time then you are conflict avoidant because you’re not dealing with the conflict and so it just exacerbates and gets worse and worse.”
“If you’re not sharing what’s happening for you, you’re not trustworthy. And you’re also not trusting your team.”
“All politics in a team come from that — if you create a team where it’s not clear and cut and dry what will make them stay and what will make them leave.”
Transcript
Joe Hudson and Brett Kistler discuss what makes a functional team. Joe explains that functionality is context-dependent — a cryptocurrency hedge fund looks different than a Navy SEAL team or a tomato processing house — but all functional teams share trust. He describes trust as multifaceted: financial trust, conflict resolution trust, performance trust, and communication trust.
The best measure of functionality isn’t just hitting goals (since market conditions can mask dysfunction), but that people genuinely want to be part of the team. A functional team also knows how to remove wrong fits quickly.
Joe distinguishes safety from trust. Safety in teams is like a guitar string — too tight or too loose and it’s out of tune. Teams need to know the inherent risks of their challenge while feeling safe to express opinions, ask for help, and show up fully. He warns that people sometimes weaponize “safety” as a form of control.
Trust is built through difficult conversations, doing what you say, and not avoiding dirty laundry. Joe references Google’s Aristotle Project, which found the most functional teams were ones where everyone expressed themselves freely. He adds a nuance: this works inside teams where people contribute, not from outside observers who want power without responsibility.
Clear goals, principles, and behavioral norms create the right kind of safety. In professional sports, players feel secure because expectations are clear — perform at this level or leave. When success criteria are unclear, politics fill the void, and anxiety gets misdirected.
Joe emphasizes that goals and metrics are an experimental, iterative process — like the scientific method. He uses the Walgreens example of measuring sales per customer rather than sales per store as a metric that better captured customer experience. Culture should be measured and iterated too, not just defaulted from the CEO’s personality.
He shares a story of walking into a company meeting where no one was listening to the CEO. He pointed it out, asked each person why they weren’t listening, asked the CEO why he spoke for seven minutes without being heard. After initial avoidance and discomfort, the real issues surfaced in an hour: the team felt the CEO needed to be right rather than get it right, trust had broken down, and fiefdoms had formed.
Joe closes by noting that when you ask team members what they want from a team, they almost always agree: support, trust, no backstabbing. Everyone wants the same kind of team. The path starts with owning your wants.